[willx]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

-Snip-

I feel like you don't seem to understand that your very words convey that you do feel hostile about this topic. Or at the very least "feel strongly" about it. This may not be intentional, but the words you choose to use and the punctuation, spacing and phrasing all convey a sense of frustration and emotion. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps you are currently tilting your head and reading this all with a wry amused smile on your face, that is also possible -- but it is not conveyed in your words.

Let's set this out here -- by your own admission, you believe that we will have unlimited resources and immortality, etc.. and that those are good things. Fine. OK.

If that's the case though, if the amount of resources we can extract/make use of (ie. we discovered how to use coal? We discovered solar power? What will we discover once we can more easily go out into space?) has increased from what was possible previously.. isn't that progress? And outright increasing average human lifespans isn't progress? You don't seem to have a clear definition of what progress or "growth of mankind" is?

I'm not sure if you're aware but you're continuously make conflicting statements:

1) You talk about how you are a pessimist -- but ultimately am an optimist.
2) You talk about how it's impossible to ever know if you're on the right path, but that we have to work hard and work together to be on the right path.
3) You talk about "living" vs "living comfortably" but then think that someday things will be great and resources are unlimited.. so how great is great? And great how? How "comfortable" are we allowed to be "then" vs "now" ??
4) To cap it all off, based on your own argument of "we can't say we've made progress, we've just come a long way" and "it's impossible to know if you're on the right path" -- since we can't say we've even made progress by your argument -- you also can't say that we haven't .. therefore logically based on your premise "things are neither good nor bad" .. except .. you think it's bad?

So, ultimately, this is a difficult conversation to have, not because I necessarily disagree with what you're saying, it's because it is difficult to decipher if and what your point is? Maybe you don't have one. Maybe you're just complaining. That's fine too. It's just that that isn't clear either. Your own statements seem to be an argument espousing "another way" but they are contradictory and you make and seem to believe several logical fallacies as if they were true. We literally seem to be talking right past each other.