[23 gundam fan]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

@itachi-san314

You are downplaying valid points here. Yes, Naruto defeated Pain, but yes, he was nowhere near Pain's level. How is that possible? Naruto got help. Who helped him? Let's see . . .

- The entire village, by exhausting Pain a bit before the battle even began
- Tsunade's slug, by giving vital information and by healing Naruto
- The fact that Naruto came into the battle prepared, and with two clones charging energy in a place unreachable for Pain
- Hinata, by being stupid enough to almost die, enraging Naruto
- The Kyuubi, by feeding on Naruto's rage and going eight-tails mode
- Minato, by having implemented a failsave in the Kyuubi's seal

Pain defeated Naruto. It would have all been over, if it wasn't for the Kyuubi, who took over. Naruto did not draw power from the Kyuubi, it was the ninetails, who overtook Naruto's body and went on a rampage. Neither Pain or Naruto would have won that battle without Minato, but the Kyuubi. You can't count the Kyuubi's doing in that fight as actions taken by Naruto. Naruto was out. He had no control over the situation whatsoever. Without Hinata's stupid sacrifice, there was no way in hell Naruto could have actually defeated Pain, even with all the other help he received. In the anime, there has been no greater display of power than Pain's. Nothing even comes close. If Pain and Naruto would have met under normal circumstances, alone in some place, without ever having heard of one another, wihtout help, and without being prepared to battle their specific opponent. Pain would have crushed Naruto. He would have wiped the floor with him, without taking a single hit and without breaking a single sweat.

SM Naruto defeated Pain, but he was worlds below his level.

you called it on that one. hey i love naruto but come on he did not really defeat pain, or not all alone, a point we hear about sasuke all the time, as a matter of fact lately naruto has had his own fair share of getting pulled out of the fire.(killerbee) which is strange. it kind of seems like the more powerful naruto has become, the more times he has been saved lately. granted we have to look at who he is fighting, but its not like the people sasuke was mixing it up with are push overs. the fact is often in naruto he comes in all power up, when the villian has fought and used up a lot of charka. i mean pain was really fighting a whole village when naruto came into the picture, that had a large effect on the outcome of that fight. i dont see how you can really reject that.