[Shinji103]

Most of these points actually have been brought up already, so I'll just give a brief on my responses:

Originally Posted by Flere821

1)For the record, Mikoto was taking down small-fries that went to hit on her, or just usual, relatively harmless punks that is mainly all talk and can't back it up with power.

People are only assuming that these are the only people she has fought before; in actual fact, Mikoto has the skills and capability to take on experienced groups like ITEM and win.

2)'Mikoto grew up like a normal girl': I would say that's 100% correct. Came from a well-off family (not filthy rich like others, but still fairly well off), a good childhood, and far removed from any problems she can't handle alone to begin with. That all changed after seeing the SISTERs, but before that her childhood was a good one.

She probably did live a "rich girl" life, but that doesn't mean in any way she doesn't have combat experience. Again, we have facts like Mikoto's capability to take on the experienced members of ITEM and win.

On the topic of Mikoto being a liability or not (or has the argument moved on? laying out the current argued points of both sides in 'Sasha-speak' would be greatly appreciated ), I'll have to mention the point that the magicians Touma works with are 'professionals' - people that sees as their duty to make amatuers like Touma not get involved as very important.

Still waiting on if the others want to just call it quits on this debate and move on, but in the meantime, in fights like against Sherryl, the only magician around was the one who wants to make a big splash and thus was not putting up barriers to keep people like Mikoto out.
For fights like with Acqua, I don't dispute at all that they'd want to keep her out, but unless a barrier was put up in advance, or Acqua was the one to put it up, then they'd have their hands full getting owned by Acqua and not really having time to keep Mikoto out of the fight.
But I'd have been perfectly satisfied if she had tried to go after him and had been stopped by a magic barrier to keep people out. Of course, unless this barrier was designed to let Touma in, or re-cast after Touma got in, he'd have to break it down with Imagine Breaker anyway to get to the fight, thus allowing Mikoto access. Still, like I said my main burn with this specific scene is that she just stood back there and watched him leave. (that turned out a bit longer than I intended )

Now, I'll bring that back to Mikoto: Mikoto are brought up as a normal girl, albeit one with esper powers and one of the top Seven of AC. She does NOT have the same resolves as some of these magicians. I won't go on about the shounen idea that 'more willpower = greater chance of defeating your opponent', but as Mikoto hesitates about killing/wounding others she'd probably be taken down by someone who's weaker, has more experience and is willing to use those experience to win. And that's just the usual magicians like Sherry, and not 'monster-class' like Acqua.

Now this I wholeheartedlly disagree with; Mikoto has plenty of resolve. She's not some half-assed person who doesn't care, and to be perfectly honest it's an affront to her character to say she doesn't have the resolve of some of these people here. She has displayed very clearly that she has the dedication to fight with all her strength.
Again, the idea that she doesn't have much experience is nothing more than baseless assumption (no offense) that conflicts with material we have seen, namely battles in Railgun. There are people who definitely have more experience yes, but those people are pretty much the cream of the crop; few people have more experience than them. (Fiamma, Vento, Acqua, etc.)
Not willing to kill has hardly ever been a detrimental factor to any character in anime; in fact, a lot of action anime characters don't kill at all. Not to mention, control of electricity is one of the best abilities to have for non-killing, and if your stun bolts aren't hitting or affecting your opponent, the problem isn't a desire not to kill.

And on the point of Mikoto not helping Touma when he went after Acqua: Mikoto at the point was too overwhlemed by the discovery of her feelings towards Touma. I believe the word is 'epiphany'? She was struggling to come to terms with her own self, her conflicting views, and to accept her own feelings; that would take time. And I'd say these things take time to sort out.

As I've also submitted to the others that this view is rather overexaggerrated, and even pretty corny. But first, there weren't "conflicting views" here; she wasn't dealing with a guy who she thought was good but was instead evil or something like that. She'd already known for a while that Touma had amnesia. The only "conflict" was her developing feelings, which she had fully realized by the end of the scene, and why he kept fighting even without his memories.
When you realize you love somone, you don't just watch their battered body limping off to a major battle; her "conflict" about why he fought had been answered, and she had accepted her feelings for him.

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

I can copy/paste stuff from Wikipedia too! Though in this case I'll use other sources that define what a 'plot device' is differently.

More insults aren't appreciated.....I don't know why you're acting snotty because I copy+pasted a definition............

"A plot device is a low-energy means of fulfilling the requirements of dramatic necessity, without having to develop the plot or characters much."

or

"A plot device is an object or character in the story whose purpose is purely to drive the plot or resolve situations. It could be something everybody wants to obtain, a device that must be destroyed, or an annoying teenager who must be protected at all costs."

And both definitions match what I copied and pasted from Wiki.

And going by the very thing you quoted from Wikipedia, a plot device was used to prevent Mikoto from engaging in fights she may have been able to participate in. The 'difficulty' to overcome in the plot was somehow not getting Mikoto involved. Therefore a plot device was used to get her out of the way.

Problem with your point is, it still doesn't change that convenient inconsistency was used with Kuroko to get Mikoto out (Hyouka was the one she should have gotten out, as per her duties with Judgement), and Sphinx suddenly running away when he was perfectly content in Index's shirt with Mikoto a foot or two away.

No one likes to debate with a brick wall. Actually forget debate, no one wants to discuss something with a brick wall. You are supposed to at least acknowledge valid points we are making, not just coming up with contrived responses such as "Still missing my point". Maybe you're the one missing our point hmm?

This is where I'm going to stop responding to you now......so far you're the only one who has displayed negative feelings here, and giorno, from the other side of the debate from me, even stuck up for me. I'm acknowledging all your points, and debating against them; it's called "debating." "Refusing to acknowledge your points" would be more like "What are you an idiot?! That's not right!" How would a debate take place if one guy didn't debate against anything the other guy says?





Again, if you guys just don't want to bother with the debate anymore, I can just shut up now.