[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Hiruzen isn't even close to this kind of power, as the first on screen Kage he's the one who suffered most from power inflation so that's not much of a point you just made there.

The only comparisons anyone in the series has made between him and the previous Hokage is that he was stronger in his prime. That said, the point is that hype doesn't always translate into actual performance when push comes to shove, and that appears to be the case here with Madara if you look at how far his own abilities got him.

No we're talking about Oonoki who actually fought him and wondered why Tobi even needed to make convoluted plan since he should have been able to come and do to them whatever he wanted if he really was Madara. And that's just to quote the one guy who knew first hand what Madara's power meant back then because the author have had half a dozen of others characters making a case of Madara and Hashirama's power being so much beyond anyone else that they cannot even be compared to "regular" Kage.

Oonoki is the only first-hand account we have, and he was a child when he fought Madara. That's like gauging Orochimaru's prowess based on Sasuke's impression of him the first time they met in the Forest of Death. It just amounts to more hype without much basis.

I said he didn't make real use of it, not that he didn't use it at all. He used it to wipe out the ~15 thousands fodders and didn't use it once since he is fighting the 5 Kages at the same time. Susanoo's full abilities? What chapter was that? He has only used partially formed and uncloacked stage of Susanoo for the moment, both Itachi and Sasuke have used more advanced forms.
There is nothing disingenuous in stating that Madara hasn't used all his abilities when it's a blatant fact. Since the 5 Kages have arrived, Madara has only used initial stage of Susanoo, Mokuton and a few Katon. No Genjutsu or higher MS jutsu, no EMS and no Rinnengan jutsu. He also took no damage from Tsunade, she fell for his clone and was gutted.
What is however disingenuous is claiming that he would have been "curbstomped in a matter of seconds" against Oonoki+Gaara+Naruto's clone+ fodder army because he used a Rinnengan jutsu at his disposal. It's as disingenuous as claiming that he couldn't fight the Kage without Mokuton because he's using it against them now. If he hadn't those power then he would use something else is all.

The only thing Susano'o gains in the fully cloaked stage is a sword, which Madara has been having his Susano'o use for quite some time already. He has used every technique we know Susano'o to be capable of using (long-range attacks + melee attacks + weapon attacks + defense), and he's been more creative with it than either Sasuke or Itachi. Using the Rinnegan to heavily injure two of the Kages, nearly killing one of them, before the others arrived was a pretty good use of that as well. And it is a fact that he was completely outmaneuvered when using just the Mangekyou Sharingan - he would have been vaporized by Clone Naruto's Rasenshuriken if he hadn't used the Rinnegan to absorb it, as Gaara had taken control of his momentum and pulled him out of the safety of Susano'o's ribcage. That was the extent of Madara's standalone power without the aid of the Nine Tails.

The clone was sealed before Tsunade even touched the ground, it was substituted after Oonoki & Raikage along with Tsunade punched his Susanoo to the ground and Oonoki's Jinton beam barely grazed Madara's cloth and shoulder. The only attack that really damaged his body is his own meteor and that's because from his own words he didn't even bother to avoid damage.

We technically don't know when he actually substituted the clone, but because of the uncertainty I'll retract that. The Jinton beam, though, hit the entire left half of his torso - you can even see by the cracks in the image where the body had already regenerated and where it was still regenerating. And I never denied that he intentionally hit himself with his meteor - but it was a clever way of incorporating his regeneration into his attack plan, which was already combining the Rinnegan and Mangekyou Sharingan. He's been making pretty good use of the ability.

I'm sure Madara was probably much more fearsome when he could control the Nine Tails, and Hashirama provided the perfect counter to that with his Mokuton abilities. But without it, he is definitely not the superior god-being he makes himself out to be, and it has been shown that he would have been taken out rather quickly by a couple of worn out Kages and a Naruto clone if not for the supplemental abilities he has in this form.

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

We've seen some subtle indications of the 3rd's power though.

In the Yondaime flashback inside Naruto's mind, the 3rd had deflected more than one chakra blast from the Nine-tails. At this point he was already old and it was taking a toll, but who else in the village could even come close to doing that beside Yondaime?

Someone really needs to get in on that monkey summon contract. I like to think that he batted them away with the diamond rod thing.