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Old 2012-02-28, 04:54   Link #27943
ImperialX
Audiophile
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 31
Thanks for the responses!

Firstly I want to get my theory to the very nature of Umineko sorted out first. This is really important and I can't believe I missed it out initially.

I believe that fantasy does in fact exist outside the Game Board. I believe that Witches and the fantasy World does indeed exist, because as long as you believe it, it exists. I believe that the limitations of magic only exists within the Game Board. In the Game Board, "magic" doesn't really exist - it is just Anti-Mystery. Outside the Game Board, one cannot deny the supreme power of magic. The very fact that a Game Board can be established is magic. The final scenes in episode 8 is all magic.

I'm not sure right now in this thread whether the general conscience is that everything that happened in Umineko is just some stories dreamt up by Battler at the end, or whether magic truly exists and everything in Episodes 1~8 literally happened, and in the end is written down by Tohya and Battler. I believe in the latter. I think there is truly a senate of witches and a magical library which stores a lot of Game Boards, with Umineko no Naku Koro ni being the real, literal story about one of them.

With that in mind, I'll start replying to some comments. Naturally, if you think my very fundamental belief above is wrong, feel free to correct me with evidence. After all I probably missed a lot of details of the game after playing all 8 episodes in a roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifloon View Post
I think most people assume that when Ryukishi said the game was solvable, he meant the gameboards (Episode 1-4) and not the mystery of what actually happened in Ange's world, which we see in E4 and E8. You can honestly come up with any solution for Ange's world since there is literally no evidence that can be used (it's generally accepted that red truth only applies to the gameboards, so you could even claim - and some do - that Kinzo was alive on that day).
I think that Red Truth only applies to the Game Board as well. After all, it has been stated several times by the game itself that in the real World, there isn't such a thing as Red Truth. However, there are limitations to what you can make up the Game Board to be. For instance, if Ushiromiya Kinzo was dead before the Game even started, there is no possible way for anyone to declare that he's alive in Red. I can't actually remember the details, but I'm sure Kinzo has been shown to be dead before the Game started in reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifloon View Post
That said, my own interpretation is that Yasu is the culprit; Eva probably solved the epitaph without telling anyone, like in E3, while Battler figured out the truth just in time to stop Yasu from blowing up the island (though too late to stop most of the murders). The majority of people would disagree with this interpretation since people tend to dislike Yasu as the culprit in the 'real world' as her motivation is seen as unsatisfactory. But to me it makes a large part of the game pretty useless if Yasu ISN'T the culprit, so I think it's a much more acceptable solution than one that wasn't foreshadowed at all.
Hmmm, can you elaborate on the "motivation is unsatisfactory" part? So what the majority of people are saying is that going on a massacre due to Battler forgetting his promise with her/him is unnatural? Well, I guess they have a point, but if she/he isn't the culprit, why did she have to jump from that boat at the end?

Well, I'm asking that even though AuraTwilight already gave his response below, but your thoughts are interesting to hear as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
It's possible that the scene with Battler and Yasu escaping on the boat was a fantasy scene, since immediately before it Featherine is described as casting a golden rose into the sea as thanks for getting to write their tale.
If it was fantasy, then for what reason was it shown for? Why did Yasu have to jump from that boat if he/she didn't kill anyone? Are you thinking that she/he only did it to cover for Battler? I think that's...a bit weird, don't you think? Why would she/he go so far to do that when Battler is the one in the wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Personally, I am adamant that Yasu is infact martyring herself as the culprit and is covering for someone else who really did do it, because frankly she doesn't have a motive and in nearly every bit of characterization we get she seems to be unable to work up the nerve to do something huge, especially kill someone.
If Yasu is doing it just as a matyr, then why did she/he make the game solvable? Why did she want to make Battler realize the Truth? Battler didn't want Ange to realize the Truth, but Yasu almost wanted Battler to realize the Truth. After all, she made Episodes 1~4 to be solvable. Or is that as a Game Master, you have to make the game solvable no matter what?

But the scene at the end of Episode 4 strongly implies that Yasu WANTED Battler to remember. But if Battler remembered...then what did she do all this for? Just for Ange? That's not a strong reason I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Also, if Yasu did it, why did Eva lock up the truth? Why is she throwing her whole life away to protect the reputation of some maid who she never liked hanging around George anyway?

I'm personally positive that either George or Battler did it; preferably George since Black Battler's existence is sort of a Reverse Psychology debunking of Battler theory.
Your points are very powerful, but I have to ask a few more things if you don't mind.

As said above, I believe that everything that happened in 1~8 literally happened. Magic and witches do exist. That means Yasu did get granted power by Lambdadelta to become a real witch, and thus to run the Game. If George is the culprit, I can understand Eva going to such lengths to hide the truth, but why would Yasu go that far? Why would Yasu try to make herself seem like the culprit all this time, just for the sake of protecting George?

If Battler is the culprit, then yes, I can understand Yasu going that far to protect the man he/she loves. And also that explains why Ange is so shocked at the truth in episode 8 that she wish she never saw it. So I guess I can accept that. Yasu did say in episode 4 that all of this involved Battler's 'sin' from 8 years ago. Virgillia did also confirm that "Ushiromiya Battler didn't kill anyone." but again, Red Truths only represent what happened in the Game, and not reality...

All I'm saying is I can accept your theory of Battler being the culprit, but I'd like you to explain a bit more about why your think George is a likely candidate. Thanks for your theory of Battler being the culprit though. I think I believe that he's the culprit too now that I think about the end of episode 5 and the entirety of episode 6. Yeah, he's more likely to be the culprit than Yasu. Except for that boat scene at the end, which hopefully you'll elaborate upon.

Now if you can just explain the boat scene more carefully, as well as why Yasu seemingly wanted Battler to find the Truth in Episode 4, I'll fully accept the theory that Battler is the culprit.

Last edited by ImperialX; 2012-02-28 at 05:10. Reason: Rethought some things.
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