Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer
I see. Well, I like what you're reporting.
[...]
I also like the idea that Eva, or maybe someone else (Ange?), wrote Banquet. I always thought it was strange that Eva lived in Banquet but not in Alliance.
[...]
And on the other hand it makes plenty of sense to me that Tooya wrote Alliance, Dawn, and Twilight.
|
Yeah, I'm really standing by my theory that
Banquet was probably written by Eva to shoulder the truth or maybe it's the theory within Ange's head that formed after she learned some crucial facts.
Banquet is truly different from the other stories and you really can question why in this story somebody survived while in Alliance it was still "nobody survives".
End is kind of a difficult case, it depends on what you see in Lambda.
Bern, for me, is first Battler's wish for a logical conclusion and the approach "without the heart", which later changes into the approach of the general public and the avalanche of heartless interpretations he set loose.
Lambda starts out as the subconcious wish for a magical non-conclusion. Remember she gave Beato all her powers in the meta-narrative...and she even threatened to take it away if Beato didn't fight an all out battle. Though I still wonder if she ever shifted into the public wishing for an interpretation with heart.
That'd make
End as much as
Requiem not into an actual story, but into a collection of theories floating around. But yes, in
End it's also kind of hinted that it is no longer the usual ballance of power. Beato is incapacitated and Battler is rather floating around and trying to make sense of what the witches throw at him.
So you could say that
End was a theory created by somebody who believed in the magical solution. Thus, there was the setting of Natsuhi shouldering the familys heritage and Beatrice as a magical guidance cosultant helping her out. And this theory was attacked by the ones seeking for a rational explanation and rules of classical mystery fiction...which would be Erika and the Eisernen Jungfrauen coming to Rokkenjima.
Dawn then would be a reaction of Tôya (after he figured it out) towards all those ideas and him entering his own perfected theory (Shkannon) into the mix. The rationalists didn't know what to do with it and effectively lost the discussion.
So we would have a structure like this:
Legend: Written by Yasu - Read by Tôya > Reaction of Tôya at the end forms the meta-world
|
Turn: Written by Yasu - Read by Tôya > Tôya imagining the dispute between magical and rational explanation while he reads
|
Banquet: Written by Eva(?) - Read by Tôya > Tôya reacting towards Eva's attempt to shoulder the blame, which would probably fit with some of the memories he had...only running into a logical flaw (Nanjô murder) at the end of the fiction
|
Alliance: Written by Tôya - Read by Tôya > Tôya thinking about his own theory and coming up with a new approach (Kinzô culprit). He remembers more and more while making this up...especially remembering about his sister Ange who is waiting for him (basically the reason for him not to push the Battler memory completely away)
|
End: Written by Magical Quarter - Read by Rational Quarter - Observed by Tôya > A fight between the magical fans and the rational fans. Tôya is pretty much keeping himself out of it until it becomes to personal and he fights until he reaches his breaking point...where he recovers all crucial parts of Battler's memory
|
Dawn: Written by Tôya - Read by Rational Quarter - Observed by Ange > Tôya who has remembered everything writes something like a "challenge to the reader" (読者への挑戦 stories are pretty popular in the Japanese mystery department). The rationalists try to disprove it and Ange reads the story (probably asks some people who make theories) and has her own thoughts about it.
|
Requiem: "Written" by Heartless Rationalist - "Read" by Loving Rationalists - Observed by Ange > A reaction of the rationalists to their defeat after Hachijôs
Dawn novel. They gather every evidence they could find so far and throw them together in a big bowl (the chapel) and try to sort out their approaches. Because it is that unordered and even on the meta-plane just Bernkastel explaining her set-up to Featherine, it's maybe just some board on the internet full of theories.
In the end Ange stumbles upon one certain theory (Rudolph-Kyrie-culprit) and despairs, because it's so much in line with all the other theories.
|
Twilight: Written by Tôya - Read by Ange - Observed by the Public > Generally a last attempt by Tôya to close the lid that he opened by releasing his books and making the Rokkenjima incident popular fiction. Both on the meta-plane as on the real plane we can see it as dedicated to Ange and all other people who still suffer. Though in the end his novel is attacked by all the theories, expectations and ideas that already formed because of the stories and his way of closing the story is almost destroyed.
So in the end it's up to individuals like Ange to decide where they want to stand.
Something like this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura
I don't think the message bottles are part of "prime" but also part of the fictions.
The only prime that's necessary ultimately is a level of reality from which the fictions are written that is in between the "lower fictions" and "us/ryuukishi's level".
|
I'd say it's possible, but it's not necessary and not actually hinted at within the stories. This'd make the end of Twilight into yet another big bowl of fiction...and the epilogue about Kotobuki Yukari would be basically just an additional frill at the huge lace-dress of the fantasy portion of the story.
But then again Ryûkishi could have just stopped after Requiem and made an ending in which we see child Battler and child Yasu having their little logic battles at some beach.
Maybe you are trying to hard to fuse together "our world" and "the world of Tôya's logic battle". Your level is not wrong...but I think it would just insert a layer between the readers world (our reality) and the reality of after 1986 in Umineko (Ange's and Tôya's world). It doesn't really solve anything, it just makes the ramifications less cruel...because you can say that beyond the Tôya and Yukari who lost everything, there is a Tôya who's just having fun with Yasu.