[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by GDB

Well, there were originally going to be more routes. At least one for Ilya. It's quite possible that her's would've filled in holes, or that pieces from her route were taken and put in Sakura's, but wasn't thoroughly continuity checked before being implemented. There's all sorts of reasons why there can be inconsistencies.

Well, it's quite clear that Nasu did take bits of the Ilya route and put them into HF, but none of the things you've claimed are 'inconsistencies' would come from that. So far, you've pointed otu a load of inconsistences, I've explained why they're not inconsistencies and you've said "err, well, I don't like you're explanation, and I don't like HF, so I'm gonna stick to my "Nasu doesn't know what he's doing and HF is shit" line even though there's a perfectly good reason for all these things". It's clear from the fact that I'm giving explanations based on my knowledge of the route for the inconsistencies that you claim are there that I understand HF better than you do. Which isn't surprising, since I suspect you've played it once (and probably didn't pay much attention, because you didn't like it), whereas I have replayed it many times and argued over it many more with people who actually know what they're talking about.

Well, either way he has to choose for someone to die. Ilya tells him that much right out, he just doesn't get why she says so.

No, he doesn't. It does turn out that way, but that's because of how the events go. And, plus, one of the three options was him, which is something he'd be perfectly fine with. In the True end, he doesn't choose to let Ilya die, she chooses for him.

This wording is confusing. At one point you say he goes against his ideals in Fate, but then later you say he doesn't.

I didn't say that he went against his ideals in Fate, I just said that his actions in Fate weren't because of them (or, at least, weren't because of his father's ideal). Can you name one action that Shirou takes anywhere in FSN that adheres to the "kill one to save many" philosophy, where the "one" isn't a clear bad guy in the process of doing something bad?

Didn't the Shadow appear long before any Servant had been killed? Or did True Assassin kill Caster by then? I forget.

This I'm not entirely clear about myself. The first definite appearance of the shadow is after at least one servant is dead, but it's unclear whether the shadow appears is there when Zouken takes out the first servant. It's possible that he manipulated Sakura into creating a shadow familiar or something, though. Thinking about it, the shadow may actually be the contents of the Great Holy Grail (which includes Angra Mainyu) leaking out through Sakura's body.

Besides, how does "looking inside her" tell her that Archer = Shirou? It's not like she had Shirou inside of her to make a comparison.

This I'm not sure of. I guess his soul is marked as being "Emiya Shirou", or something (UBW shows that there are problems with having two Shirous in the same time, so clearly there is some marking that says "this person is Emiya Shirou"), and with her ability as a magus (which is to do with soul manipulation) she's able to read it.

That's not how it worked prior to HF, which is exactly my point.

No, it is. True Assassin isn't the exception, Fake Assassin is. The game makes that quite clear, even in Fate and UBW. He's not a 'proper' servant because he was summoned by Caster, and thus the Grail made a 'fake' out of some souls it found lying around.

And assassins don't need to be anonymous, just stealthy. I'd say pretty much any famous "ninja" would classify for the assassin class with ease.

Well, perhaps, but the way that the Grail War works in FSN only allows Hassan to be Assassin. It's obvious to me at least that the only reason Fake Assassin is described as an Assassin-class servant is so that Nasu could include True Assassin in HF. Otherwise, they'd have come up with a more suitable class name for him.

I don't see how that's any more absurd than Shirou or Gilgamesh being "Archers", when that certainly isn't their claim to fame.

No, but they have the properties of an Archer, in that they're good at long-range attacks. Being an Archer-class servant doesn't mean you have to be an Archer, it just means that you have to rely mainly on long-range attacks.

Again, Gilgamesh isn't known for shooting people with a bow, either. We don't really know enough about the classes to dictate the exact specifications needed to qualify for them, especially when someone like Hercules has his bow turned into an axe-sword.

Perhaps not, but Nasu has made it canon that Assassin is Hassan-al-Sabbah unless you cheat (like Caster did). So, that's Nasu's definition of the servant class. If you're complaining about how he's defined the Assassin class then you should also be complaining about how he's defined the Archer class, and thus you should have decided that UBW is 'full of plot holes' too.

Seriously, can you give one reason why Fake Assassin should fit in the Assassin class, other than "because it's the only class that was left when Caster summoned him"? He has none of the properties of an Assassin at all, and (unlike the Archers) there's no particular property that he has that would make him a 'pseudo'-Assassin. The only reason Fake Assassin is called 'Assassin' is because True Assassin wasn't summoned like he should have been, so Fake Assassin took his place.