[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I wonder if there's a relation.

Maybe some lesbians do not like Yuri because it's too feminine? And maybe they like Yaoi better because the male characters in yaoi do not behave like men (not even gay men) and the "seme" characters are basically butch lesbians with dicks?

I'm complaining about Western lesbian romance or fiction in which lesbian characters are involved. I'm complaining that they're not feminine enough, because there's a media-inspired stereotype that has made the general populace believe that even when the relationship is between two women, there still has to be a masculine-feminine dynamic.

This doesn't reflect reality at all. I know far more lesbian couples (including myself and my fiancee) who are both feminine than I know couples with a "seme/uke" dynamic, to maintain the otaku metaphors.

I like most yuri, except for the fact that most of it is so full of teenage angst that it gives me horrible high school flashbacks and I'd rather not have those. I'd like to see more yuri about adult females, but this is rare, since Japan thinks being gay is a phase women get over before they graduate high school and become baby-making machines.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Well NanoFate only dominates because Tsuzuki fails at romance and keeps beating around the bush+ lack of viable choices

Besides, can you really have a magical girl show w/o yuri?

The longer they beat around the bush, the more they can rile up the fanbase, the more they can waggle the carrot on a stick and keep people buying their stuff.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

@synaesthetic: where's your Yukari avatar... put it back >_<

What's wrong with Koishi?

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

I can't say the same with all case of yuri manga/ anime. But i clearly want to state that: one of the reason that Heterosexual male like to ship on yuri pairings (in non-yuri show), is not because of what yous stated above. But because we like romance genre too. But sometime male characters for those shounen shows does not worthy enough to be with the girl(s) and hence shipping is there for those girls to have worthy romantic development is the preferred option. It's actual purely shipping, rather than for pornography fantasy purpose

Guys are very strict with male character in general, and there's only few of them who actually worthy enough to be an object of admiration. I can state an example with Angel Beats. Was shipping lots on Hinata x Yurippe until the anime ruined the character of Hinata hard (comparing to in the light novel). So that's why the shipping of YurippexTenshi or YurippexYusa was then preferred

Wondering if yaoi fangirl having the same mindset

You're a bit of a rarity when it comes to shipping in general. Most people are shipping because they want something out of it, whether that is squee factor or fap factor, and the fap factor isn't unique to the guys.

Most girls I know who gay-ship male characters are doing it purely for the fap factor.

Originally Posted by karice67

The impression I get is that, if yuri appears in works aimed at male audiences, it's more about fanservice.

It's exclusively fanservice. If you look at all yuri subtext or content in works aimed at a male audience, it's not relevant to the plot. It never goes anywhere. It's just there, very clunky and pointless.

As much as I support the NanoFate ship, this is a prime example of it. So Nanoha and Fate might be lesbians, but what bearing does that have on the plot? None whatsoever. Would removing the relationship and cutting back on the fanservice between the two make the story any different? No, it really wouldn't.

I don't consider subtext to actually be yuri (or a positive depiction of a lesbian relationship) when it's used for pretty much pure fanservice. I didn't really care much about the NanoFate until I started reading fanfic where the relationship was explored and was actually significant in contributing to character development or moving the plot along.

All romance, straight or gay or what have you, is nothing but fanservice unless it contributes to the plot or to the character development of the couple involved (or, in the case of romance stories, is the plot).