[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I don't think anyone was arguing that fanservice is beyond criticism,

Your latest post here is a reply to my reply to Solace. My reading of Solace's post left me a bit worried that Solace might be shifting fanservice off to this "Fantasy" category where it would be above criticism. Thankfully, after discussing this further with Solace, this does not appear to be the case.

I think it's a directorial/stylistic choice.

Sure. And like almost any choice, some people will like it, and some people won't, and I see no harm in both sides expressing their opinion there.

I don't expect those who like it to stop liking it just because other people don't like it.

But by the same token, those that dislike it aren't going to start liking it just because some other people do like it.

Ultimately, this will probably have to be an "Agree to Disagree" sort of thing.

I don't think anyone has this expectation either;

Then how do you explain this?

That was the first reply I received for my review of VRO's first episode.

By my reading of it, it's saying "You clearly like yuri, so you must like the fanservice in VRO too".

in fact, it seems to me that there actually a wide variety of shows that emphasize different sorts of characters in lead and supporting roles. Saying it's "all the same" seems a bit fallacious to me, as I can certainly point to styles I like more and styles I like less (or not at all).

Sure, I agree with all of that.

Personally, I think the "this is what otaku want" thing is mostly intended as a judgemental insult in the first place.

I typically see that line used to justify why anime content is the way that it is. The person using that line is not necessarily insulting otakus with it. In fact, the person using that line is often defending anime (as a whole) from someone voicing a criticism like "There's too much moe in anime" or "Why do we have so many of XXXX type of show, but not more shows like Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell?".

At a purely neutral and "simple fact" level, the defense may well have some validity to it. I tend to see otakus (i.e. Japanese hardcore anime fans, as I tend to use the term "otaku") in a netural sense (but I respect that most tend to use the term with a distinctly positive connotation, or unfortunately a very negative one).

Sometimes I agree with otakus, sometimes I don't. I don't think they're "losers", and I think they have as much right to their tastes as anybody else does. And I respect how they drive this industry.

I do think, though, in their criticism, sometimes make rather bold assertions about how things "should be" based on their own personal preferences, that tend to exclude other opinions.

People will disagree sometimes. Disagreement means that you favor one opinion (typically your own, of course) over others. That's the inherent nature of disagreement. If two opinions are diametrically opposed (as they sometimes are), then people will tend to choose between the two incompatible opinions.

Even some people in the same fandom for a particular show will disagree sometimes. You see this a lot when it comes to character discussions, for example.

At a most basic level, I advocate for what I like, and against what I don't like. I think most here are the same, and I think that's fine. Again, I'm fine with an amicable "agree to disagree", and I respect that different people have different tastes. But that's not going to change what I think of pervy camera angles in a serious action scene.

For me, it's a negative. My opinion is that it detracts from the technical and cinematography quality of the action scene. Personally, it also creates a nasty "mood clash" for me. It's the lone element that made me drop Strike Witches, a show that I think I otherwise would have liked.

So naturally I'm not going to be fond of this element. I mean, it's very rare for a lone element to actually ruin a show for me.


This will probably be my last post on this topic. I think I've made my stance on this topic (and the reasoning behind it) pretty clear by now. If not, I'm fine with anybody PMing me for further clarification.

With thanks given to you and the other Moderators, our PM boxes are now large enough for me to safely go this route if needbe.