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Originally Posted by Mentar
Not true. I wrote in response to telamont that Athena was desperate and downtrodden (that should be clear to EVERYONE reading the respective chapter) and that contrary to his implied suggestion that Athena had a "strong desire to live" at that point, she was much closer to
"tired of life", and there (extra addition now) close to option b).
To translate that to simpler English: It's not like she had a death wish when she announced her intention to Hayate. It's not like she _wished_ to die. But she wasn't exactly brimming with determination to survive either. She felt that sacrificing her life was the best option left for her, a "punishment she brought on herself" (her own words, which we still don't understand yet).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar
Not true. I wrote that Athena IMHO genuinely wanted to sacrifice herself (see point 1), but...
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"Tired of life" means that she had no reason to live for. And I think when you said you genuinely wanted to sacrifice pretty much meant that she desired "a death wish." I don't think she ever "wanted to sacrifice" herself and die off; and in contrary, I believe she had a strong desired to live, and she wanted to be rescue by Hayate from the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar
I never said that either. Pure invention. What I rather said was:
A genuine, good intention in itself is laudable. A genuine attempt to fulfill it, even more. But it is NOT on the same level as _doing_ it. And if you CHANGE YOUR MIND because you don't want to do it after all, we should tone down the praise on the mere good intention significantly. You should be honest enough to do so.
Completed Good Deed >> Tried and failed Good Intention. Period.
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Spoiler for Used summed the points:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can
Now, Mentar's argument can be summarised in 2 points:
1. Athena wasn't fully determined to sacrifice herself, since in the end she changed her mind.
2. Athena shouldn't be praised for something she didn't do, since in the end she was saved.
The other side of the argument says:
1. The fact Athena wanted to be saved doesn't mean she wouldn't have sacrificed herself, if she had needed to do so.
2. That alone is enough to praise her.
In the end, I think both arguments meet an end-road, since we cannot tell what would have happened if Hayate had been unable to save her.
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Because of the differences in the our perspectives, the only way to prove that she was willing to do it, and for you to accept it was for her being dead.