[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

It's really not possible to compare the two as we'll never know if MetaBattler would have solved the epitaph with the hints PieceBattler had.

A fair point, however:

Originally Posted by EP5 Script

`"......As for that last fight, thank you very MUCH.`@` I am grateful for the mercy you showed me at the very END."`@

`"That 'me' wasn't me.`@` ......Lambdadelta was controlling him."`\

`I joined in on the 5th game partway through.`@
`I still haven't participated at 'this point in time'.`@

`So until I do join in, the piece 'me' is probably being controlled by Bernkastel or Lambdadelta.`\

`"......Just what kind of whim are they working off?`@` Trying to make it look all cool...`@` They made me look like some kind of knight coming to save Beato."`\

`"Lady Lambdadelta wants both witches and humans to be in balance, resulting in a draw. `@/

`.........With Erika's appearance, the scales tipped strongly in the favor of the human side,`@` so she manipulated the tale in a way that supports Beato."`\

`"I am aware of that.`@` However, pieces cannot do things that are impossible for THEM.`@` And they specialize in actions appropriate to their original PERSONALITY. `@/

`......Therefore, that was certainly something that you......that Battler was capable OF.`@` That is why I am grateful to YOU."`\

That was what Dlanor was saying to MetaBattler from EP5 (some of the lines were from Virgillia though)

Also the fact that when MetaBattler 'awakens' in the ???-tea party, we lose his point of view that we were following for 5 games long and suddenly he knew about things like the golden truth. The same happened with his piece version, but for that one already at the beginning of the EP.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

I wouldn't even be sure that MetaBattler of Ep 5 is smarter than MetaBattler of Ep 2. The main difference between the two is that in Ep 2 he thought he had to deal with a real life mystery and felt horror at the idea one of his relatives could have done it. In Ep 5 he finally became aware it's all a game and so he managed to solve it.

MetaBattler from EP3 and EP4 also accepted that it is a game, or possibly even that 1 of the people he knew really was a murderer. And because of that his arguments have become a lot better. However it was still far away from his chiru capabilities. Also he only had to fight to deny magic and witches, while much later on he had to find out what "really happened".

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Considering that the solution for some deaths is 'giant bomb in the secret underground military base' the small bomb theory doesn't seem so bad... -_-

Yes, i found this fact always ironic... Beato laughted so hard about the "small bombs" and 'killed' Battler 5 minutes later with a giant military bomb. Well, since the blue truth was valid, it counted as a 'realistic', and 'non-magic' possibility too. So i give you that point.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

And anyway Genius Battler theory still doesn't explain how the epitaph was solved but murders continued.

Somone solved the epitaph and found the gold, but never revealed it. Either to have the gold to him-/herself, or, if for example Battler found it, to prevent the gold being used as a weapon by his family against the others as we saw it in EP5 (or even worse in EP7).
Because of that Piece'Beatrice' never found out about it and assumed that no one solved the epitaph yet.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Also we don't really know how good Battler was at solving the mysteries he read.
He might have been pretty bad at it and totally unable to apply the solutions he knew once he was facing what he believed was a real mystery.

He might also have been an expert at it. But we will probably never get to know which of these assumptions is true.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

And not that in Ep 1 he mentions mystery books... though in the end he can't figure out the tricks used because he's going at it in the completely wrong way, by trying to find an extra person and blame him/her in place of his relatives because he can't deal witht he idea one of them might do something that horrible... a problem he likely didn't have when reading a book.

That only worked for the whodunnit though. Every time he did a guess about the howdunnit, he didn't even name anyone who could have done it. So since he went at it with in such an abstract way, why couldn't he 'access' his mystery knowledge?

Originally Posted by jjblue1

And who says he didn't know whodunnit, howdunnit and whydunnit?

Because of this:

Originally Posted by EP5 Script

`......It isn't from the Decalogue, but Erika or someone said this:`@
`There are three riddles to be exposed in a mystery.`\

`One is the 'who dunnit'.`@` Who is the culprit?`@
`One is the 'how dunnit'.`@` How did they commit the crime?`@
`One is the 'why dunnit'.`@` Why did they commit the crime?`@

This doesn't sound like knowledge he has himself, but instead it sounds like something he as heard from 'Erika or someone else' for the first time recently.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Battler mentions more than once references to mystery novels:

*snip*

and note this:

*snip*

and this

*snip*

In the end he basically was very close to the solution already right in Ep 1 but then discharged it when he began to realize the implications of accusing his relatives and missed still some answers (for example how the culprit didn't care about the police investigating or of his own survival).

Is Battler really incompetent? Or he's being just a mystery lover that's facing a real murder case involving people he loves?

He's likely aware that in books the detective has detective authority or whatever you want to call it but he perceives himself as in the real world so, even in Ep 4 when he inspect the corpses he thinks the police can complain about it.

When in Ep 2 Beato remembers him Nanjo might be an accomplice (as he suspected in Ep 1) and suggests him to personally check if the guys are really dead Battler is fighting in order not to cry.

I doubt he would have cried while reading a mystery novel.

And there are mentions of mystery novels in Ep 2 as well, and in 4. Battler definitely had mystery knowledge prior to Ep 5.

Well he had the "mystery knowledge" in the story, but the question is, if he can use his expieriences with these stories, or not. If Yasuda is the author of the bottles, then she of course knows, that Battler is reading mystery novels, however she didn't see him for 6 years, which could lead to a "reverse Detective Conan"-Battler that is practically a 12 year old in the body of an 18 year old. A lot of scenes, escpacially in EP1 and EP2 make him look like a little child that does not know about the most trival things, that EVERYONE ELSE knows about, even Maria. Also i am not sure which of the quotes you provided are from PieceBattler and which are from MetaBattler, so i cannot really answer that.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

So, genius Battler.
If you remove from him the possibility he solved the epitaph his other accomplishments are 3.
Finding the culprit for Beato's games, creating an alternate solution for Ep 5 and building up a mystery in Ep 6 who required to be solved by ShKanon then letting himself be trapped in a logic error so that Beato could solve it.

Note that: Will found the culprit just using the hints from ep 1 to 4 (and we were supposed to do so as well according to Ryukishi), so he was more of a genius than Battler.
The first tricks presented in Ep 6 are pretty lame and really if the game had taken place in the real world Erika would have easily realized Battler and Co were faking their death as they were likely breating and their heart was beating.
If Erika had merely pressed a pillow on their face out of instinct they would have had to move to try to get some air, revealing their 'alive' status.

Genius Battler isn't really that smart the same way Ep 1-4 Battler isn't really that dumb, they merely looks so due to circumstances.

As you already mentioned, Battler is emotionally involved in the game and has a hostile stance toward "Beatrice" only later when he "opened up to her", he could solve the game. Compared to that, Will could calmly have a neutral stance from the beginning and could that way solve the game much easier.

Also we get disattached from Battler's POV at the end of EP5 and if we suppose "Genius Battler" is true, then most of the things we see in EP6 from Battler's POV is a lie too. In that case it is hard to really evaluate Battler in these episodes. But the 'lame' tricks are supposed to be 'lame'. That is part of the plan of getting trapped in the room. If you see it like this, it seems evident that he really looked down on Erika. And i understand why: She is a lame 'Meta-gamer' (her piece version preparing for a murder although she shouldn't know anything about a murder taking place at that point.) and even then she is unable to win the game. It is as if someone uses cheats in a game, but still loses. So he set the 'difficulty' very low and still won... RandomAvatarFan will hate me for saying this.