[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV

But that's what we're saying - 10 years of service isn't enough to hit Lt. Colonel.

Dudko died as a Captain Second Rank on Kursk, age 31, XO of 1st ranked sub, the Kursk - that's about 10 years of service, and on perhaps the premier submarine of a Navy. OK, it is the Russian Navy, but I discuss this more below.

First, keep in mind that Hayate started off from nothing but a big ball of potential. She wasn't a combat veteran. She didn't even have a device. She couldn't be trusted to command her knights directly, given what had just happened. She'd cast a grand total of what, ONE spell in a combat situation. And, not to be rude, she was actually crippled at the time, even though it got better.

To be fair, she did show a great ability to adjust in the incident. She actually figured out that she can just call her knights back out from the book (thus bringing out the extra needed manpower to do the job), and both her spells were well executed - note that she was the only one who did not expend any cartridges during the last engagement.

Reinforce was helping her, but hey, everyone else were using devices (that they are a lot more familiar with) as well. Her first battle was against a boss.

Also, in the comics, she was already being trained as a candidate officer even as her legs were coming up (not a big problem because she could move around quite well transformed).

You get your commission as a 2nd Lt., then promotions go up 1st Lt., Captain, Major, Lt. Col., Colonel. Even if we admit Hayate directly to the service from the point her legs start working again, that means she's been promoted four times within nine years, which is -way- more than the average officer promotion rate in a real-world military, outside an airforce actually at war...

Actually, all three of them seemed to have came up in the TSAB's equivalent of OCS - 3 months only.

You can get a promotion as a reward for an act of heroism, certainly. But typically, the understanding is that you'll spend a longer time than usual at the next rank, because the military doesn't like having officers that are way younger (or older) than the norm for that rank. You don't generally want officers with less experience giving orders to officers of greater experience. (Of course, it's different between NCOs and officers, but that's part of the game.)

The first problem is - what is experience. It certainly is not synonymous with "seniority". The TSAB is a bit unique here because it is neither fully at peace or fully at war. How close you are to a war footing depends on your eliteness. Mundane ground battalions may spend their entire careers effectively at peace, maybe moving out to fight an occasional fire. Elite mages may be asked to fight on a wide variety of battlefields every day, and they would almost always draw the toughest ones. Obviously, one is getting experience at an insanely higher rate (even before we consider the sheer ability differential).

Some militaries actually formalize advantages for situations where only part of a military goes to fight and gains combat experience. Soviet officers fighting in Afghanistan were counted double - one year in Afghanistan looks like 2 not just on the paybook, but the career/seniority book and time-to-pension book as well. This made a lot more people want to go to what otherwise is a completely hellhole for little gain.

This may also explain why Hayate advanced so much faster. From 13 onwards, Nanoha was a Combat Instructor - a privileged and elite position but not one with many chances for combat. Fate is Enforcer, so she has a variety of high and low difficulty jobs. But Hayate probably only gets brought out with her Wolkenritter on the toughest as TSAB's Central's elite Reserve - Special Investigations Officer. She might literally be getting 3-4 years of "book seniority" for every year she actually serves - and it won't be unfair if she is getting the toughest.

On top of that, once you're above Captain, it's not really a combat position - your administrative skills are almost as important as your leadership skills at that level. We'll grant Hayate a superior ability to organize, but is it so superior that her superiors were able to recognize it in a -young girl-? Enough to get them to approve her promotion? Especially knowing that, at this point, further staff promotions are inevitable - even if she's the worst Lt. Colonel in the service, she'll have the seniority to hit full bird before 30 and general before -40-?

For all we know, another promotion is due to come to her as soon as this whole Relic thing blows over.

She did, of course, pass the command school exam, and for all we know, she got honors (according to the Japanese NanohaWiki she was promoted two ranks at once, which suggests an honor student). That would suggest on paper she has at least similar abilities to her (presumably much older competitors) in the command school.

The exact transition zone for various level changes depending on the military anyway.

I don't buy it. For me, that's enough evidence that the TSAB puts a heavy thumb on the scales for high ranking mages - that Hayate isn't a Lt. Colonel because she's a superior military administrator or combat leader, but because she's got that SS after her name.

Yes, but it is not a solely magic power thing. It is mentioned in the NanohaA comics that magic is highly dependent on the sciences - especially mathematics which underlie the creation of magical arrays. It is mentioned that Fate, for example, has a Master's equivalent knowledge of Magic, and that she can help Miyuki (high schooler) with her math homework quite easily.

Yuuno, as you know, has been writing papers and by the age of 19 is already a rather well known doctor/professor.

Thus, while it is not obvious onscreen, a mage at 10 is actually a genius across at least some parts of the intellectual spectrum. In other words, they are not only promoting the good mages fast, they are also promoting some of the brainiest people fast, and who can argue with that.

Oddly, Nanoha and Fate are much more believable as Captains. For one thing, we know they were somewhat veteran before entering the service at all, y'know, from the first two seasons and all. ;p We know that Nanoha has gotten up to enough exploits to have picked up a nifty-keen nickname. And Captain is only two promotions up from where they would have entered at, assuming the TSAB was willing to admit them straight into the officer corps (reasonable, though again, it's purely deference to their abilities.) You can make captain by 30 if you start at 20 and work hard (and are lucky and see action, and Nanoha has all of that). So, starting at 10, okay, captain by 20 isn't toooooo much of a stretch.

Actually, the United States Army has recently reduced its time-in-service requirements for Captaincy to a mere 38 months, something which has caused considerable distress.

Of course, all of this assumes a correlation with a Western-style system of commissioned military officers. If the TSAB starts its officers off at a different rank, results can vary widely. But keep in mind that the trainees that Nanoha and friends have on hand are all -privates-, so unless they're shortly to be promoted big-time, that makes the situation even worse.

Well, that's because they aren't quite as elite as our heroines. Remember that our heroines are in fact covert genius, not just overt uber-mages. Though Teana was given a shot at officers' school as well (she just didn't pass the entrance exam).

The TSAB position is not easily comparable to Western militaries. I've mentioned the way the units are not gaining experience anywhere near evenly.

Also, there are many internal circumstances that are not easily seen. Since ranks are but mere decorations, let's look at positions. The seniority one requires to get a particular position actually varies quite widely.

The Soviet Army, for example, is a place where officers advance in position (if they are good and if they have connections) very fast. Captains can command battalions (mostly Majors, but some Captains, and you are probably a little slow if you are a Lt.C) and thus it is perfectly possible to get a battalion command before 30 (<10 years of service), as are positions as 3rd (corvette/frigate) and even 2nd rank (destroyer) warship commanders.
Even a regimental commander position is achievable at 32. A company you might be able to get as soon as you graduate a military "Higher School" as a Lieutenant.

Of course, a compensatory factor with the Soviets is that officers are required to do less in some ways. A company or even battalion have few administrative tasks, for one. They also expend less time in "Joint Duty" assignments. But such factors are less easily seen than the 32-year old Soviet regimental commander.

To go in the other direction, the British don't let their officers command companies until they are 35. They also have fewer joint duty assignments. For this reason, the British sometimes worry about the American system. At least the Soviets could say that all they require their junior leaders to do (at minimum) is to execute Column-Prebattle-Battle and back Drills, but company commanders in both the US and British system are required to handled combined arms teams.

So, it really all depends.