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Old 2013-04-15, 01:54   Link #71
relentlessflame
 
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
It still leaves wide open the question of what exactly we mean by "mainstream" in the context of this thread.

"Mainstream" in terms of marketing reach? Or in terms of scale of production? Or in terms of content appeal? It seems to me that we haven't been very clear about how we define the label, and we have been using it in mixed ways.
Well, I can at least say what I think it (generally) means, and then I guess others can offer their own meaning if different:

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
When people talk about anime going "mainstream", they generally mean that it becomes part of mainstream adult culture -- things that working adults talk about around the proverbial water cooler just like sports, celebrities, and the latest TV shows and movies. Or perhaps more to the point, that adults can say they're an anime fan and not be looked-down upon or thought of as weird. It becomes part of the "public consciousness" and begins to get attention in the media. It becomes "normal".
As you say, it's clear that a lot of anime (the proverbial "Otakuland" in particular) isn't even designed to reach the mainstream audience in Japan. The odds of a niche product reaching the mainstream in another market is slim to say the least (which is I think the point speedyexpress48 was getting at). If you look at the history of Disney's animated works, for example, they're marketed through parents to get at children (so between the kids getting older and remembering the brand, and the adults being exposed through their kids, you establish a brand that way). I think some of the things that are seen as "mainstream" now are more accepted because people grew up with it, and the new products consciously or unconsciously build on that experience. You could perhaps point to something like Pokemon as another example of this (even though interest does generally taper off as kids get older, how many Nintendo gamers and anime fans entered the fray though that franchise?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Also, somewhere along the way, we have taken "mainstream" to mean what is accepted by most people in the United States. I think the opening post has been edited, because I seem to recall it was longer and more detailed. In any case, there isn't any mention of a specific market in the opening post. So, while I don't know why America is taken to be synonymous with "the West", my interest in the discussion is more rooted in the common points of interest between Japan and "the West" where anime is concerned.

It is from that perspective that I find more things in common than people give "mainstream" anime credit for.
I'm not an American myself, but the reason I use the U.S. as a barometer is because Hollywood is such an influential cultural exporter and "trend-setter" for media around the world. In addition, back in the day anyway, the North American anime market was the biggest outside of Japan (but I suspect this is no other case, with the collection of Asian markets being more important now).

Also, I would say anecdotally that I don't know if anime has gotten a great deal more market acceptance in any other International market.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
What do Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Archer, and The Venture Bros. have in common?

Adult themes, and considerably larger audiences than the majority of their respective industries.

I'm not saying that the U.S. likes more serious and adult anime that's high quality, with more serious and adult themes, fascinating settings and characters, and all the rest they have, but...
The anime you're listing also came out during the boom era of anime in the West. Their "considerable larger audience" is partly just being in the right place at the right time and scratching an itch at that moment. Even if you pump out shows like that over and over now, the bubble has burst, so I'm not sure the market for that sort of content is really all that much bigger any more than the fans of other things in terms of the market we have left. If there was still a large American market demanding those types of shows, Japan would still be making anime to reach that market as they were at the time. I think things have changed, and it's not the content that led that charge.
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