Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo
As for Sakutaro, he's not dead, that's only what Maria thinks, so there's nothing wrong with Ange being able to summon him. You could say that Maria developed a specific magitoxin that only works on Sakutaro. Even if Maria created Sakutaro by 0, that existence still remain and all the witches of the mariage sorciere can summon him.
For what concerns the stakes... for what I can understand, they go to slumber if there isn't any witch to summon them. At least that's what the stakes say in that particular situation and it doesn't match with what Gaap is saying, considering she talks about a whole demonic world she lives in.
Personally I think that there are too many evidences that the antimystery perspective is full of holes, so trying to make it credible will be kinda hard.
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-Okay, I'll accept that it's just Maria that cannot see him. But if that's true then why does Maria talk to Sakutaro in this scene even though at this point the toxin should prevent that? Perhaps we should look at this Maria as 'furniture' and not a witch. Perhaps this Maria is a substitute created by Ange to fill void left by the real Maria. If thats the case, then where does this extra Maria go to? I think she is only in this scene.
-From what I understand about demons and 'furniture' there is a big difference. Furniture is created by a witch while the demons already exist and are summoned. Sakutaro and the Siestas are created by Maria who is an Origin witch but that creates a problem for the stakes of purgatory because Beatrice claims to have created them even though she also claims to be unable to use origin magic. There is also the case of Ronove stating that Genji is his vessel. I don't think this contradicts the idea that demons exist before hand and are simply summonded. Using a human as a vessel could be viewed more like possession. However I am at a loss to explain how Ronove is walking around when Genji is so clearly killed in EP4.
-Tell me about it. However I like to argue the fantasy perspective anyway because of the way Higurashi ended. Yes oyashiro was real and all the kakera jumping was real, but the supernatural elements were not actually responsible for the curse. If Umineko follows the same pattern, then it is likely that magic is real, but that it was not used to carry out the murders.
*edit*
Okay, nevermind my rambling about 'furniture' vs demons because Ronove calls himself furniture. It's probably better to say there are 2 kinds of 'furniture'. Those that are created and those that are summoned. I'm not sure if the Stakes of Purgatory are created by Beatrice or just summoned to serve her. I don't remember anymore so maybe their isn't a contradiction there after all. I am also confused now as to just where they all go when they aren't summoned. The Stakes as well as Sakutaro go to sleep while everyone else goes to the demon realm. This is weird because Sakutaro was created, and perhaps the Stakes were too. But the Siestas, who were also created, go back to the demon realm and constantly talk about this 'Pendragon' guy we have yet to see.
I also just had a thought about the 'extra' Maria. Going on the theory that there are two Maria's this is how is works out. Maria said she left a fragment of her soul in the diary. This is that 'extra' Maria and it can only remember things written in the diary. This fragment's memory will change depending on what section you are reading, so if you are reading the section before Sakutaro dies then she can talk to him just fine. I dunno, still kind of fuzzy about anything concerning Maria and Sakutaro in this episode.