[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Keep in mind, modern military body armor doesn't use Kevlar to stop rifle rounds. That's why they have hard ballistic inserts. I don't think an arrow would be able to insta pierce that.

I know about the metal plates they insert within their body interceptors to further absorb small arms fire - I did mention "metal plates" in my post, didn't I? But as I also said, there are enough unprotected parts on a soldier's body that can be hit by a stray arrow - like arms, thighs, throats - etc. If an artery get ripped open, you could bleed to death in a matter of minutes regardless of how much body armor you were wearing.

But then there are two prerequisites for this scenario:

• The JSDF commander must be overconfident enough to let his men take the brunt of a full archer volley instead of letting the Komatsu LAVs, SPAAG and other armored vehicles do the dirty work for them.
• Soldier discipline is sternly enforced and the soldiers actually move out with a full set of body armor. Back in 1993, during the infamous Battle of Mogadishu (Operation Gothic Serpent), some U.S. Army Rangers removed the metal plates from their body armor because they thought they were going to have an easy day with the "skinnies" (a scene you even see in the movie Black Hawk Down if any of you have watched it) and did not want to be overencumbered - leading to some tragic results (some soldiers only removed the plate on the back of their vests, which means that when they were shot in the back during an ambush, the bullet zipped through the soldier's body, bounced off the front plate and tumbled backwards, causing even more damage in the chest area. Arrows don't behave like that, I know - and here's to hoping the JSDF doesn't start getting overconfident with their technological superiority, it could lead to imprudence and fatal results like it did in Somalia.

Of course the power of infantry with auto rifles versus bowmen isn't the armor of the infantry. It's their increased firepower and accuracy. Riflemen just have so much more firepower than archers...who aren't going to stand out in the open as they're mowed down like they're robots. The inclination of the archers is gonna be to duck their heads.

If the riflemen don't have a direct line of fire to the archers because they're using thick palisades or are hiding behind a hill (from which they shoot arrows in the air with a low parabolic trajectory), they could still pose a threat to the riflemen beyond.

Assuming of course that by then the JSDF commanders haven't called in air support or an artillery barrage already.

And this scenario would imply the Empire already figured out that the rifles are magic implements, but devices that propel small projectiles forward, like a souped-up bow. At this moment, they haven't - they still think it's magic, so maybe a magic ward could provide some protection, if such things do exist?

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

@Roger: I believe there's a matter, although its futile against most, would be to turn the ballista into AA (if there's a dragon, there's a high chance that one of the defenses will include a massive ballista or crossbow on a swivel that nods and turns sideways), use catapults/trebuchets/mangonels that fling big nets instead of the normal rock or incendiary projectile or simply use the arrow hails to try and force the helo to land. a magnificent bastard could fire a well placed hit on the main rotors or the tail rotors for the lulz.

The only way the Empire could really annoy air support would be by creating a massive smokescreen to deny direct eye contact with the ground and thus prevent the gunships from accurately telling where the targets are. But with onboard FLIRs (Forward Looking InfraRed camera), this shouldn't be a problem. Range fire (Hellfires, TOWs, FFARs) should fix this, too.

Or the Empire could attempt to use small dragons to harass the choppers.

@Renegade: and here I thought the turret was similarly armored to its chassis. the spalling you mentioned could destroy the radio if it was located in the turret

It usually is, since that's where the tank commander is seated. One of the main concerns for MBT crewmen is the targeting/comm equipment getting disconnected by the sheer concussion of a direct hit (no hull breach, no spalling, just a massive jolt caused by the hit) and suddenly being blind/deaf and mute on the battlefield.

and the rocks COULD dent the main gun if the one who's behind the engine is also a magnificent bastard.

If the shooter is REALLY lucky and the projectile heavy enough, he could even bend the barrel, which is nevertheless supposed to be extremely solid and not easily deformable. But the Empire artillerymen have far better chances taking out the optronics/targeting devices on top of the turret rather than nicking the barrel.

And, yes, I know there are issues with adjusting the aim of war engines when you're up against fast-moving vehicles. But trebuchets and mangonels were designed to fight against massed infantry and take down walls, not MBTs. Still, they're the most potent threat on a battlefield, since they're the only things that can, in theory, damage a heavily armored tank.

I did remember the Greeks trolling with Greek Fire during that war I forgot that was effective as shit against boats and bunched up infantry. Romans would use it in forested areas where the clay jar breaking COULD up the butthurt. I'm not sure what would happen if an incendiary projectile hitting the MBT would do to it and crew.

Nothing much, actually - the tank's interior is heavily armored and I've heard several people calling the driver's box of a M1A2 Abrams a "steel coffin" because of the extensive shielding and the fact that there's not much room to move around. Also, as I said, the big problem would be the boiling incendiary fluid seeping through the exhaust vents/air intakes behind and around the turret (I think the Abrams has one on the left side, half-hidden by its massive turret) and causing the Diesel engine/gas turbine to catch fire. In which case, due to increased risks of explosion, the crew needs to bail out ASAP.

But otherwise, if we're talking about rolling through a burning meadow, there's no problem unless you decide to idle for too long (and the sensors start to melt, the machine guns on top of the turrets start to misfire on their own because the bullets are overheating, etc). The tanks have their own air filters (some models like the Abrams do have NBC protection straight out of the box) and they can bug the hell outta there in no time, unless the ground's muddy and prevents the vehicle from making a swift exit.

also, its time they used their brains and dig giant holes deep enough to swallow an MBT, but NV equipped devices will prevent them from doing just that.

Rather than direct confrontation, I think the best and only way for the Empire to score hits against the JSDF would be to attack FOB (Forward Operating Base) camps in the middle of the night, with guerilla warfare. But I don't think they are well-versed in that or can even think up such a concept.

In WWI, both sides dug trenches to prevent tanks from crossing over, but the Brits (who fielded the first tanks on the battlefield) solved the problem by equipping their vehicles with fascines, bundles of wood that could be dropped inside the trenches to bridge the gap (which is faster than requesting a military bulldozer to come forth and refill the trench). In WWII, they used Czech hedgehogs to impede tank movement, but those could be blown up or removed by military engineers. Both devices (trenches, hedgehogs) could be the Empire's best shot at making tank movement much more difficult, but they are not infallible. They can only stall, not stop.

If anything, they could be good as immobilizing the tanks long enough for the catapults/trebuchets/mangonels/ballistas (preferably hidden behind a hill, away from JSDF sight) to start shooting their deadly payload on virtually sitting ducks.