[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Uhh.. No he didn't. Unless of course Geass is a part of the system and taking over by killing his father despite the protests of his relatives who are forced to obey. He changed the system from the outside, had he done it Suzaku's way he wouldn't have rebelled and would have worked his way up into the position not steal it with Geass.

Sure using geass still counts as being within the system. Why wouldn't it count as doing so? Lelouch's claim to the throne still had its legitimacy based on his royal heritage and all of his reforms/war declarations/tyranny/etc. were made through the channel of the Britannian system/government. Don't forget that Schniezel himself was planning a "coup" too. The entire basis/history of the Britannian royal system was filled with backstabbing/assassinations/conflict amongst the family members in the first place so I've got no idea why you'd say Suzaku aiding one of them in violently taking the throne would be "outside" the system.

Suzaku agreed long before Lelouch thought of Zero Requiem to kill Charles in exchange for the Knight of One position under Schniezel. Do you think that counts as going outside of the system? Regardless of if you do, that already proves beyond any question that Suzaku wasn't "forced" by Lelouch into anything.

By choosing to work with Lelouch meant that Suzaku had given up on his ways and followed Lelouch's. And again, Lelouch was not within the system. One day everyone thought he was dead, the next he Geass'd everyone to serve him and than purposely did horrible things so that the world would hate him so that it could move on.

Lelouch ended up taking the hate away from the real criminals and putting it upon himself. That doesn't change that criminals, like his relative that was wiling to nuke the world, got away scot-free and nothing was ever done about them.

What does that have to do with anything? Obviously within the (Britannian) "system" neither Schniezel nor Cornelia were considered criminals, so wouldn't the fact that they weren't punished demonstrate that in Zero Requiem Lelouch didn't try to go outside of the system?

Suzaku was still dependent upon Lelouch. Had Lelouch just killed himself than and there than nothing would have changed despite anything Suzaku tried to do. His way just didn't work and he was reserved to the fact that he needed Geass to change how screwed up the world was. Thus he lost and as punishment he is to be Zero to enforce the peace so that Nunnally can have her ideal peaceful world that was changed not by the system but by Geass which is outside the system.

lol nope, as mentioned above Suzaku already had a standing deal with Schniezel. After Charles was defeated, Suzaku decided to kill Lelouch and honestly if he really wanted he could have just done so and then gone back to Schniezel, claiming credit for Charles' elimination. Then he would've become Knight of One, govern any country/"area" he wanted and helped Schniezel take over the politics of the world in a way which was fair and peaceful for everyone. The only reason that Suzaku chose to stick with Lelouch instead was because Lelouch agreed to atone/die for Euphie and by doing so strike up his old friendship with Suzaku.

Even with Nunnally dead it still didn't change that he still wanted to make the world she desired(and really, it's not the first time Nunnally has been in a compromising situation that made Lelouch go batshit crazy). Had the Black Knights not betrayed him he would have still lead them. Their betrayal was just the final straw since he was already dealing with Suzaku nuking things because of the Geass he put on him, thinking Suzaku sold him out, the supposed death of Nunnally, Shirley being dead, Rolo still around while Nunnally wasn't, and the such. Than there's the thing where he tried to make Kallen hate him, despite her willing to die for him, to save her.

So it's understandable why he wanted to die. However, he wouldn't have resigned himself to that if he wasn't betrayed on top of everything else.

Again, what does that have to do with anything. The point is that Lelouch was suicidal during/after his meeting with Charles and would never have accomplished anything or thought up of Zero Requiem afterwards if it were not for the influence of Suzaku.