[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Well, now that we've gotten our backgrounds straight, we can now do glorious battle!

...except that you've gotten more of my background than I yours. Also what derision? I'm merely repeating my disclaimer that my background is influencing my current line of thought. (As well as getting out a disclaimer that I'm Malaysian. An aunt of an American penpal of mine once thought I was an American pretending to be someone else to e-stalk her niece, on account of my command of English. Wasn't funny then... now, I can laugh about it.)

If anything, I'd thought you'd honestly forgotten my background, so rather than kick you to an earlier post I'd repeat it...

...admittedly I tend to be a rather sarcastic person IRL.

You might want to read what this member named Ascaloth wrote throughout the General Chat thread. That is real caustic sarcasm, and the abuse of English literature at its finest.

I'm still undecided about this but i'll reserve judgement until i see the finished product.

*shrugs* at the end of the day all improbable weapons must have seemed equally naff until they were eventually shown and proven to be useful. I'd say we'll have to agree to disagree here, based on our differing paradigms. I'm still not convinced - so you'll have to convince me by writing.

I am certainly not writing! I am adding my characters for other people to use, just like in IS.

Technical designs though, are a different issue. I prefer to draw and design.

*shrugs* I'm basing of what I've read in the American context. American units generally do not favor fixed bayonets.

No wonder the ANZAC SASR were grumbling about them ditching their backpacks and running for cover instead of carrying them along.

By right, they are supposed to carry the packs along because they hold surplus ammunition, though not filled into magazines, they are clipped together.

American doctrine seems to be shoot-first talk-later. Not very long term.

Again, not me - I'm referring to what is taught at SQT, and since they've been doing this for 40 years one might have an expectation that they know what they're doing... *shrugs*

I got mine from experience working with RL troopers in the army. Maybe different combat doctrine?

Again, law enforcement. We're supposed to apprehend suspects, not kill them.

Especially since the paperwork for killing suspects would be horrendus and IA would get involved.

Erm no, paperwork for dead suspects are easier unless there is a court, NOK or public enquiry. It is only the "death-by-what" report and the death certificate, the difficult thing is that more people have to countersign.

I'm aware that the MP7 and Five-seveN use different rounds. What I was trying to say was that you may want to consider dropping the Five-seveN entirely for the MP7, which in the folded down mode isn't that much larger than a large full frame pistol.

Though in the end Amdo does custom mods like Kinji's semi/burst/full auto 92FS, so your proposal is not inconceivable. It's just that having spent pretty much my entire life making do with less I'd rather not go through the trouble.

The MP7 is much bulkier and almost three times the weight of the 5-7. The gun concepts are totally different - I want a small but well-rounded gun that can be easily handled - though cocking the weapon might be an issue.

I don't want the P90 because it is an ugly gun.

*shrug* And yet SWAT teams don't enter rooms with fixed bayonets - nor did the SAS when they stormed the Iranian Embassy.

Remember that the Iranian Embassy is pretty roomy even along the corridors, otherwise they wouldn't have blasted the window apart.

Besides, the MP5 is quite hard to grab because the other hand already takes up the entire of the handguard. The trooper could easily ventilate the nut playing hide-and-seek round the corner because he had nothing to grab. However, if he is holding a rifle, the terrorist could have grabbed the muzzle.

Also, SWAT teams are not limited by the amount of ground they have to cover, the limitations of manpower size, or the standard issue arms soldiers tend to be given. SWAT teams don't have to make do, soldiers do because of a difference in geographical intel.

Again, agree to disagree, etc - but the scenario you're mentioning doesn't seem to have come up very often. Something I once read about bayonets is that the idea of fixed bayonets is more often than not a morale booster, fitting into the minds of troops the idea of no mercy, fighting on till the end, etc etc.

Police Quest. Not Modern Warfare.

It is real life combat doctrine. It is recommended to fix the bayonet because of a whole list of issues like weapons issued, room conditions, no intel - tell you what, why don't you sign for the army and learn how troopers really fight in urban environments instead of quoting off stuff from combat mags? It gets kind of difficult to explain things to people when they never got a punch in their face from round a corner, or how some peekaboos from the same place can mistake the bayonet for the muzzle then cut their hands silly.

Perhaps, and yet it's not a regular occurence - most serial killer arrests that I've read about note that the killers come quietly. Robbery, on the other hand, seems to be a harder breed of criminal - and yet big shootouts also aren't that common (though the North Hollywood Shootout and the Miami Massacare continue to grip attention).

The reason why most serial killers come quietly is because they treat they know they totally suck in fighting in an all-out environment. There is this guy who killed 4 cops last year in a cafe, then was shot by a cop trying to apprehend him because he tried to draw a carbine.

I knew shouldn't have mentioned the last and confused you further, though the local defense mags note that most excercises are jungle/beach insertion.

The whole infiltrate and storm the front door and windows was what's normally done by UTK for urban CQB, and then they proceed to the room clearing that's never photographed. From what the local defense mags have revealed generally UTK follows the British and American playbooks: battering ram or breaching shotgun, followed by room clearing with judicious applications of flashbangs, when coming in from the front door; alternatively roof or window insertion.

That said, let's be honest - the HnA paradigm is mostly an urban environment, so, again, any other examples you can share?

I think you are the one who is confused. Storming a building is NOT easy because there is more than one room. In the jungle, most houses are built with one or two rooms as village houses. However, in real urban environs you have to take into account the layout, the speed which is can be accomplished, the limited weapons due to size, the size of the door, the number of rooms, your team's headcount - the list goes on and on.

I am not sharing because you wouldn't get it anyway as they are practical applications, plus that I am limited by something called the OSA.

The dude who discovered the electron. So basically your point is that TK's old fashioned? How was that not derisive on your part?

Wrong. Read a little more. His history, his derivation of idea, etc.

*raises eyebrow*

... yeah, it's so much more meaningful and nuanced when you do it in real life.

Of course. Because you risk your life dissing others off, forces you to read body language, tones and not skim read what others say.

There is a point that one must take into account, in that one cannot let this consume onself...

That is bull. Do it good, or don't do it at all.