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Sugetsu · 2007-10-01, 13:02

I have been on both sides of the fence when it comes to guild progression. I have been raid officer for one of the best guilds in the server before BC came out, and I have also formed a guild from scratch just by having people off of my friends list.

People in an end game raiding guild are in a very privileged position. Only when you become a part of a new guild you realize the big obstacles you have to go through in order for your guild to become hardcore. The most difficult part is recruiting, as Wordplay stated.

All guilds have 2 types of players; hardcores and casuals. The hardcore players are the ones that meet the requirements I mentioned earlier. The casuals are the ones that meet some of the requirements but not all of them. The more people you got in the guild the more hardcore players there will be, even some casuals can become hardcore if there is enough motivation. The big problem is that 25 people is still too large a number for raiding, specially if you are in a new guild. For example for Magtheridon you need: 4 to 5 tanks, 3 to 5 warlocks and 7 to 9 healers. It can be done with less but only when you have him on farm, anything on SSC and The eye requires 3 tanks, 2 locks and 7 healers minimum. Gruul's Lair, on the other hand, doesn't require any specific classes as long as you have 4 tanks. The class requirements make it quite hard for any new guild to get past gruul's, it is not impossible for the new guilds get past that content if they keep trying, the problem is patience. It can take up to 6 months or more in order for the guild to grow enough (that if it doesn't suffer from any major drama) but not all players are patient, once they get gear up they might go to the older guilds because they don't feel like farming the same content over and over until their current guild has enough to do something else. Only older guilds who have gone through trouble before BC came out are the ones that are making progress past gruul at this point. (Or new guilds formed in recently created servers)

Then comes the problem between new and old guilds. The old ones are in a privileged position because they can recruit whoever they want from any new guild, therefore they can weed out the casual from the hardcore. If raids were about 15 players maximum it would be much easier to start a raid because statically a guild never has more than 15 players on at all times, it is only when raid time approaches that this numbers start to fluctuate. I welcome anyone to refute this claim.

If blizzard doesn't reduce raids to a manageable size, nothing will change and there will always be a 3% that can do 25 man raids while the rests does Karazhan lol

2007-10-01, 13:02	Link #132
Sugetsu Kurumada's lost child Join Date: Nov 2003	I have been on both sides of the fence when it comes to guild progression. I have been raid officer for one of the best guilds in the server before BC came out, and I have also formed a guild from scratch just by having people off of my friends list. People in an end game raiding guild are in a very privileged position. Only when you become a part of a new guild you realize the big obstacles you have to go through in order for your guild to become hardcore. The most difficult part is recruiting, as Wordplay stated. All guilds have 2 types of players; hardcores and casuals. The hardcore players are the ones that meet the requirements I mentioned earlier. The casuals are the ones that meet some of the requirements but not all of them. The more people you got in the guild the more hardcore players there will be, even some casuals can become hardcore if there is enough motivation. The big problem is that 25 people is still too large a number for raiding, specially if you are in a new guild. For example for Magtheridon you need: 4 to 5 tanks, 3 to 5 warlocks and 7 to 9 healers. It can be done with less but only when you have him on farm, anything on SSC and The eye requires 3 tanks, 2 locks and 7 healers minimum. Gruul's Lair, on the other hand, doesn't require any specific classes as long as you have 4 tanks. The class requirements make it quite hard for any new guild to get past gruul's, it is not impossible for the new guilds get past that content if they keep trying, the problem is patience. It can take up to 6 months or more in order for the guild to grow enough (that if it doesn't suffer from any major drama) but not all players are patient, once they get gear up they might go to the older guilds because they don't feel like farming the same content over and over until their current guild has enough to do something else. Only older guilds who have gone through trouble before BC came out are the ones that are making progress past gruul at this point. (Or new guilds formed in recently created servers) Then comes the problem between new and old guilds. The old ones are in a privileged position because they can recruit whoever they want from any new guild, therefore they can weed out the casual from the hardcore. If raids were about 15 players maximum it would be much easier to start a raid because statically a guild never has more than 15 players on at all times, it is only when raid time approaches that this numbers start to fluctuate. I welcome anyone to refute this claim. If blizzard doesn't reduce raids to a manageable size, nothing will change and there will always be a 3% that can do 25 man raids while the rests does Karazhan lol Last edited by Sugetsu; 2007-10-01 at 13:14.