[Gooral]

Spoiler for for discussion with Ryus:

Originally Posted by Ryus

There's no proof she was the organization's eyes...

I didn't say that it's proof. You like this word don't you? Prove this prove that... Yes, there's no proof that Teresa was the eye of the organization. Thanks for stating the obvious. We know however indirectly that Teresa was the best claymore of her generation in sensing that we know of. Teresa even as a child could sense Rafaela that was trying to hide her youki. We don't know how skilled she had to be in order to do that (because we don't know how well cloaked Rafaela was and how far away she was) but we know that developing an eye takes years (otherwise Renee would be ready rather quickly and Galatea would be executed earlier) and Teresa was just a child then. It's safe to assume that within years her skills improved just like it was with Renee: "the next generation's eye is being raised as we speak". If the skills wouldn't improve they would have no need to wait for Renee to develop, she could serve as an eye even as a child. There is also Clare in the equation. She could sense Galatea from a distance that was Galatea's limit (although Galatea was sure what she sensed and could do much more). Since Clare has Teresa inside her it's rather logical to assume that Teresa was somewhat skilled at it also. Teresa could pinpoint where youma where, how many of them were and had PYS, i.e. she was quite skilled, definitely more than average claymore. What matters is that it explains why they didn't know about Teresa's power. You asked "how come" and I answered you. What proof do you have it wasn't as I said? None. What proof do you have that Rosemary wasn't an abyssal of Riful's strength? None. On the other hand we know that organization made only the strongest warriors as #1, only such that could become abyssals if they awakened. We also know 10% Teresa dominated 80% Priscilla and that Priscilla in human form dominated two abyssals. Besides, don't underestimate Teresa. If she knew that someone could sense her aura she wouldn't later lie about it to Orsay because she would know that the lie would come out sooner or later. She was confident that he has to believe her words, i.e. she knew there was no one close enough. As #1 she would know whether there was someone good at youki sensning other than her, don't you think? Higher ranked warriors know more than the ones from the bottom.

Prove to me one of the other 19 warriors didn't sense it

I thought you would nitpick this sentence. Let me rephrase, no one from the ghosts in Rabona could sense Isley, even Tabitha who was supposed to be quite skilled at youki sensing. What were the chances that someone better than Tabitha and other than Teresa would be an eye during Teresa's generation? Or that there even was an eye? What's more, when Rosemary fought Teresa it was in a remote place, in the mountains, not an open space and plane area.

Need I remind you of Raphaeal finding Irene in the mountains...

Need I remind you that Galatea was the eye? Once Irene released her youki it was easy as pie for Galatea to pinpoint her location. And Irene was releasing large bursts of youki constantly for many days so it was even easier. What's more, when Irene released her youki when she fought Ophelia they were in the woods, not in the hole Irene's hut was in. Once Rafaela was there she was close enough to sense bursts of youki from two warriors with ease.

... or Irene sensing Clare from the mountains

We don't know where Irene was when she felt a familiar presence. Probably very close to where Ophelia and Clare were.

... Galatea sensing the Fab 4 from the other side of a mountain... or Clare sensing Galatea sensing her from the other side of a mountain... (I admit she had doubt)

Galatea is on entirely different level so it's not surprising she could sense Clare. Clare sensing Galatea just means she was that good. And who knows, maybe because Galatea was on a high ground it became easier for Clare to sense her. Anyway, they weren't that far away from each other.

Well besides your pure supposition and arbitrary numbers you bring up a point... but it's clear they tracked Teresa to that village some how.

Ha!!! I was hoping you would say that. That's why I wrote "without a doubt". In my hypothetical example every claymore would know it's Teresa from 10 m but he would also know that someone was there from 100 m. They wouldn't know whether it was a youma or a claymore or maybe AB (although in Teresa's generation hunting AB was extremely rare since Noel and Sophia didn't seem to know about it). But the org would know where everyone is so it would narrow down where Teresa could be. And Teresa was well known, probably many active claymores knew her. One claymore told the other, the other told the org and suddenly everyone knew where she was.

and that proves what exactly... Oh you said something, now go part a sea or something and then maybe I'll listen without thinking for myself.

Again with proving... Find a better word. If the org didn't notice how powerful Teresa and Priscilla were when they fought then how the heck could they know how strong Rosemary was? It was much, much easier to sense Priscilla and Teresa when they fought because they both released more power (combined at least). And yet they knew nothing about it => they knew even less about Rosemary and Teresa's fight.

We just haven't seen the whole story of every character. Your reading too much into what we can't possible know... hence it's irrelevance. Authors included needed facts unless that want a big plot twist (and even then there's typically hints). If Yagi reveals this exact point you so cling to as the plot twist of Teresa's domination over Priscilla then I'll personally apologize to you. Until then Yagi hasn't given us cause to use this as the source of Teresa being superior to Priscilla

Yeah, so it's better to believe a character that often says half-truths or lies than to believe what we've actually seen in a fight between Teresa and Priscilla... Brilliant way of thinking.

You fool... That was the first clue Rubel was a spy for the other side.
(I'd love to see the look on your face right now as you realize the truth of that )

:]. I've considered the possibility but there is nothing that indicates it. Tell me genius, how does it imply that he's the spy? Because I can see only laconic response of a kid who can't even explain his reasoning. He said that Priscilla is the strongest amongst awakened beings and then that he doesn't know whether organization's strength is enough to defeat her or not. Nothing suspicious about it. I see you're assuming that Rubel knew more about Priscilla than the whole organization combined (because only then he would want for a confrontation with Priscilla) which is too convenient. He was lucky once, that Ophelia reported about Miria to him only but how come would he know about Priscilla being stronger than Alicia? That's ridiculous. Also he had no reason to lie to Clare, at least when it came to Priscilla. And if he knew that Priscilla was the strongest being he wouldn't tell her to forget about her because he wanted her dead anyway so to him Clare going after Priscilla was a good thing.
And your argument that Rubel could tell them that attacking Priscilla is a great plan is stupid. Yeah, they would listen to him just like that... Why would they bother to defeat someone that was retarded? BTW, you could have just write about Rubel being a spy without doing a one line sentences.
Bring more arguments and make less comments "that's not a proof" and smilies and maybe I'll start taking you more seriously.

They would still know she awakened and send someone to check to see if there was any awakened Rosemary remains...

That's assuming they would have measures and time to do that. Besides we don't know what Teresa did with the body (for someone of her strength hiding a body wouldn't be a problem). Again you're assuming she was an idiot and would lie about Rosemary when it could be so easily verified like you say. They would have to find the body first and Orsay wasn't exactly near the place were the fight was. Even if they sent someone to check it out and the body was still there intact what good would it be after the fact? They would probably just assume that #1 became a crappy AB. An anomaly but in a different way. The fact that they sent #2-5 and thought they could defeat Teresa means that they didn't know about awakened Rosemary being defeated by her.

If Rosemary was as strong as an AO then she would know exactly how strong she was after beating her. After all you believed the was the organization's eyes and would have been trained to realize when she sensed them.

Galatea was the eye too and she didn't know how strong exactly Riful was. Alicia didn't know how strong exactly Riful was and she was very close to her. The same can be said about other Abyssals. It's not that easy to measure their power. Renee was surprised that it was Riful standing before her, she didn't even recognize she was being chased by her even though she was an eye. And last but not least, there is a big difference between knowing that you're stronger than AO and knowing your full strength. In short, what you wrote was ridiculous.

I'll try to ignore your taunt since I seem to have a history of making you mad when we debate this.

Written by Ryus who uses only "fool" taunts.

Not if she's an eye like you claimed she was. They are logically trained to report the movements of the AO. Galatea could tell power levels from a vast distance... same with Tabitha, Cynthia, and Clare. Galatea and Renee both knew who Riful was right off the bat. I don't need to remind you both are confirmed eyes of the organization.

Not true. Check 82nd chapter again. Renee knew it was Riful only when she was sitting next to her. When Riful was chasing her she didn't even sense her (at least not directly). Clare was totally surprised how strong Riful was ("damn, so this is the power of an AO) and at the time Riful was still hiding her youki. This was the same Clare that could sense Galatea from afar.

Also your logic is kinda off on this point... your stating that Teresa was far stronger then Rosemary (which you claim was at an AO level)...

No it's not. Let me make it simple. Teresa sees Rosemary as someone weak. She doesn't know how strong exactly AO are. Why would she assume that they are also 10 times weaker than her? Why believe that she's the only one that's special?

So, Why not do a minor rebellion and kill of some AO's if she could? It's not like she couldn't claim they came to check her out and she just defended herself...

And why do? I don't see why would she bother to do that? You're just making up silly questions.

An AO doesn't need to show off... you can tell there power just by looking. They can do far more then just basic moves.

Yeah, I can tell just by looking that Riful can't be cut vertically or that Isley can change his arm to anything and shoot homing arrows...

Are you referring to Yagi writing that Priscilla gained access to all of her latent power upon awakening? or something else? (which I fail to get, since I mentioned nothing else like it... unless you misread me or I had a very bad typo...)

And by Yagi you mean Rubel? To me Priscilla's awakening is no different than any other awakening. Once you awaken you have access to 100% of youma powers.

No that's after they have spent all there yoki... not when there using it all. You have yet to prove that an AB can use every last ounce of there power when fresh on the battle. There's nothing to indicate they can't fight at 100% yoki for a prolonged period... This isn't DBZ (there's no super energy wave just peak proficiency)

...
I'm confused. Doesn't "spent all youki" and "use all youki" mean the same? Anyway, what I was trying to say was that somehow after the fight was over between Priscilla and Isley the outcome was similar to what we've seen in Luciella vs. Isley fight. So it might mean that she used all her youki. And I never stated that AB can't fight at full power but they have limited amount of time. Otherwise I wouldn't see a reason why change back to human form.