[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

If I may offer an alternative perspective on your points starting with this one. As I saw it back when Kanon/Clannad etc. were just starting to come around, the Key anime had a very large install fanbase, not the other way around.

True, but the difference in commercial success (i.e. DVD/Bluray sales) between Toei's Kanon (Kanon 2002) and Kyoto Animation's Kanon (Kanon 2006) is quite notable, and speaks to how Kyoto Animation really did help out Key here.

Now, no doubt Kyoto Animation benefited from having popular source material to adapt. That's what Key brought to the table. But I really don't think that just any animation studio would have had that success, because not all of them have the approach or style of a Kyoto Animation.

What I mean is the majority of people who followed Kanon/Clannad etc. seemed to have already played the game and were waiting in anticipation for the anime based on the experience and likewise anticipating the popular and fan-favourite scenes, which were recreated quite faithfully from what I've been told.

I agree on Clannad, but with Kanon I know that a lot of anime fans were wondering "Why is this getting another anime adaptation when Toei did it only four years ago?" It could even be argued that Kyoto Animation's Kanon would need to be significantly superior to Toei's (or at least viewed that way) just to justify it's very existence.

Thus, it seems more like the label of faithful adaptations should apply in Kyoani's case because I think it's something everybody could agree on as one of their strengths.

Well, It could easily be argued that being faithful to the source material is a key component to a high quality anime adaptation. At the very least, I very rarely see an anime complimented for not being faithful to its source material.

It's harder to argue for high quality since it's a subjective notion,

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my point. I was talking about high quality adaptations, and not the anime being high quality in a more general sense.

In other words, I'm certainly not saying that Kanon 2006 is an objectively great anime, and if you disagree, you're wrong, end of story.

What I am saying is that Kanon 2006 is a high quality adaptation because there are certain objective measures that you can apply to the quality of an adaptation.

You yourself alluded to them.

"Give your show a respectable budget, take the time to study the material and transition it to an animated format, account for pacing, give the people what they want. It's a good approach overall for winning the hearts and minds of the visual novel/eroge playing crowd."

There's a certain objective quality to high production values (which comes about through a respectable or greater budget). Anybody can tell how well-crafted, at a basic visual level, Gundam Unicorn is, for example. A lot of people may not like Gundam Unicorn, but I don't think anybody would say that it lacks good animation. Keeping the distinction between artstyle and animation in mind here, of course.

To me, one of the most important goals for an anime adaptation should be to make it appealing visually, and that's where high production values really help. An anime adaptation, like a live-action movie adaptation, has little control over how popular or how good the source material for their work is. But what they do control is what it looks like on-screen, and there are some measures of quality here.

Now, if you want, you can replace my "high quality adaptation" in the post you responded to with "high production values", because that's mainly what I was getting at here. For further example of what I was getting at here, Kyoto Animation is famous for their attention to detail. Consider that they actually use carefully done line sketches of real world locales in Haruhi's anime.

It also seems to me that the relationship between Key and Kyoto Animation was more of a mutually beneficial one as opposed to a boon for Key courtesy of Kyoto Animation.

Well, I agree that it was mutually beneficial.

Also since I think it's worth mentioning, there's a name for this whole mutually beneficial system the Japanese have set over there which I believe is called "Seisaku Iinkai" where the idea is that each party involved in the making of an anime puts forth a portion of the funding and hence takes a part of the risk themselves while at the same time maintaining a portion of the rights and a say in the production of the show.

Thanks for the info.

If this is the case then I think the main hang-up here is that the fans have a poor way of showing it in their posts around the internet a lot of the time when it comes to anticipation, appreciation and recollection of their shows. Take for example the thread I saw about Kyoto Animation's upcoming TV series Nichijou on MyAnimeList. I want people to count the number of times that a person says that they are interested because the material is good versus stating they will watch simply because it's being made by Kyoto Animation.

I count 14 out of 113 posts (well over 10% of the combined total posts in the thread) specifically relating to people stating how they will watch this show because it's by Kyoto Animation. I want people to think about that long and hard for a moment, because I can't find any way not to view this as an expression of brand loyalty no matter which way I turn the matter around in my head.

I think that brand loyalty can impact on how many people watch an anime show. But I think that this watching experience generally needs to be a pleasant and/or entertaining one in order for it to turn into a DVD/Blu-Ray purchase.

Also, marketing can make up some of the difference that brand loyalty brings to the fore. Angel Beats!, while made by an animation studio less popular than Kyoto Animation, made up the difference through effective marketing. I mean, I watched one of the trailers for its anime, and I felt that it was a very good trailer.

One more thing, I would caution against using the examples of McDonald's and Wal-Mart in any post that is attempting to express support a company, even if no attempt at a comparison is made.

Well, I was drawing a contrast between Kyoto Animation and McDonald's/Wal-Mart. There's no question that brand loyalty factors in heavily to McDonald's/Wal-Mart. Both are huge and seemingly everywhere. Kyoto Animation is actually a small animation studio that does relatively few works (compared to a giant like Sunrise).

Still, I thank you for your advice.

*snipping moe debate because it was not something I was intending by my first post on this thread*

Lastly Kyoto Animation's marketing also owes itself to the Seisaku Iinkai system. In their case the partnership is with the publisher Kadokawa Shoten who handles a substantial chunk of publicity for their shows in the magazines it owns such as Newtype. I know it's a pain in the ass, but you can't really credit any company alone for coming up with the marketing campaign's for shows such as Haruhi because Bandai, Kyoto Animation and Kadokawa all shared a part of the risk and thus all are entitled to the benefits and credit.

Well, fair enough. Good point.

I think we actually share the same perspective here. I for one am not a fan of eroge adaptations and find the vast majority to not stand out from the mold in any noticeable way, but Kyoto Animation, while I may not be head over heels for their works in this area, has a way of making their attempts in adaptation come across as somewhat respectable and I think this is commendable.

I agree that it is commendable. I'm not majorly into eroge adaptations in general, but a couple of the Kyoto Animation ones are amongst my favorite animes.

I'm not sure I'm the most qualified to speak about this area, but from what I've followed of the two in the area of eroge adaptations they do seem to have similar practices. Give your show a respectable budget, take the time to study the material and transition it to an animated format, account for pacing, give the people what they want. It's a good approach overall for winning the hearts and minds of the visual novel/eroge playing crowd.

I totally agree.

Thank you for your reply as it gave me a chance to clarify myself, and precisely what I meant by "high quality adaptation".