Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten
monster is talking about something different here, not determinism. He's talking about an all-knowing God, which solely by itself does not require a deterministic link of events. That's the difference he's trying to make. He says that in his view, individualities and alternatives do exist, yet God still knows which one will be picked. It is not the same as not having any individualism and alternatives whatsoever and somebody or something being able to predict the future because of it. The fact that a God would be able to see the future would not necessarily mean that everything is predictable by logic and therefore deterministic, because God is something that defies logic to begin with (I'm almost sounding like a theist here, trying to defend a theists point of view.  ). |
However, if said god is also omnipotent at the same time (like the christian/muslim/judaism god), then he has the power to change everything, just by willing it.
If he deciedes to intervene in some cases, and not in others, that would effectively negate free will, because it is all up to god in the end to permit something to happen.
The only way such a god could enable free will in other beings, would be to
always refrain from intervention, because this is the only option that requires no active 'permission' from god, for things to actually happen.
This however would be equivalent to god not existing.
So either (monotheistic) god does not exist, or we have no free will...
On the part of determinism, you have to distinct between theoretical possibility to predict something and real science.
Most real systems include parts that behave non linear, which means small variations in starting conditions can lead to very different outcomes.
These systems are still deterministic, because you could theoretically calculate the outcome, if only you'd know the starting conditions exactly.
Science will always use a simplified model of reality and assume somewhat simplified starting conditions. Because of this, the prediction science comes up with will only ever be correct to a limited certainty.
But the philosophical concept of determinism is not about that.
It is about the theoretical possibility of prediction, given the 'demon', a being not bound by the physical limitations of human scientists, that does not use science, but his unlimited knowledge and computational power instead.
So the possibility of real science to predict your dreams is of no importance here.
If it was theoretical possible to predict them, determinism would still stand.
But it does not, because there is uncertainty , so you can not know the perfect starting conditions, even if you were all knowing.
And there are real random events, like atom decay and other particle interactions.
Both, in a non linear system, could possibly have a huge impact on the whole system.