[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Keroko

New information from SSX throws yet another light on past observations.

If your interpretation is right, then this is called contradictory information, not another light. "Another light" is when an old observation can be read two or more ways, and while we chose Way A as preferred for some reason at the time, Way B was never completely overruled and with the new evidence, the weight balance shifted so either Way A was closed or Way B now looks better.

The way you want it, this clearly does not apply - Way A was the only real solution according to the evidence, but according to you Way B is true, so the old observation was invalidated.

It is probable this is not really the case.

In track 16 of disc 2, Subaru is hit by what is blatantly labeled an 'artillery' style cannon with 'live ammunition' that could 'destroy a tank in one shot'

What's this "live ammo"? Does that mean magical ammo is not "live" even when set on killing strengths?

Joking aside, Subaru actually said 実弾兵器, which in Terran context usually means live, combat-use ammo, but here presumably refers to it shooting projectiles made of either pseudomatter or even real fermions.

Artillery style? What caliber? Shell weight? Velocity?

It is hard to cut the velocity with hearing, but it is not hard to hear that the "Phew" and the Explosion as the Shell's propellant fired started at least 1 second before the charge's (warhead) explosion started (actually more like 1.5, but this should be demonstrative enough).

Let's make some rough cuts of the distance. The near non-existent delay between the end of the Mirage's demand and Subaru's refusal virtually rules out there being a large distance between them. Otherwise, there will be a delay while the sound waves reach Subaru - a limit of sound propagation velocity.

Little distance, long delay, the shell is slow .... less than 100m/s ground speed. What kind of shell is this. Obviously, the author has spoken about his conception of the speed of Belkan "artillery" shells. At least he shows scientific acumen (?), because a hand-held "artillery" device firing matter-based shells will actually have sharply limited muzzle velocities to reduce recoil, unless the shell is so small it is unworthy of the name (say a rifle and bullet).

There is one exception.

Spoiler for Exception:

If we ignore the fact their volumes are comparable, assume the "microphone" is placed much closer to Subaru and the distance relationships are just right, it is possible for there to actually be a delay, but due to sound propagation, the apparent time gap is compressed.

As an example, suppose you insist the shell's ground speed averaged ~600m/s (a modern howitzer's muzzle velocity is around ~800m/s, but that's counting vertical speed and not counting drag, so let's say 600m/s average ground speed). So the one second delay (ignoring sound propagation for now or assuming an equidistant microphone) means that Subaru is 600m away. However, sound takes about 2 seconds to traverse this distance. If I place the microphone right next to Subaru (and appropriately pick out and gain up the voice of the Mariage), then Subaru can sound like she answered right after the Miriage finished talking.

This sounds like a solution, but there's also the problem that you will then have to rationalize away the time delay of the shot, and while there is theoretically a solution other than the shell being ridiculously slow in speed, it will involve changing the microphone's position so it is much closer to the Mirage, so the time gap between the charge and the explosion is appropriately lengthened.

In the above example, if we don't move the microphone away from Subaru, the delay will actually invert, and you'll hear the explosion about one second before you hear the propellant. But they seemed to have marked the propellant with a Phew sound (and charging sounds before that), and the long rumbling suggests the explosion is indeed the sound that we heard later, so this possibility is also practically ruled out. You'll thus move the microphone so there is a second delay (roughly equidistant will do nicely in this scenario).

Of course then there's the issue of typical combat ranges and all that...

If we agree such measures are enormously unlikely, or if you want to say that the makers "never thought about sound propagation" and that I should assume effectively instantaneous propagation, that leaves us with one real conclusion - the shell is slow. Basically, any chance of the shell not being slow involves the makers being exceptionally detailed in thinking this all through and then deliberately deceiving the audience. I'll ignore the irrealism of a high-velocity artillery device because if the makers can think it through to this point, they probably are doing this knowingly - which in turn means they know exactly what it means when they made Midcrete, and they did it anyway.

Leaving Cinque and Novu, and actual powers and speeds for a moment, according to the Mirriage, Belkan 戦車 can be destroyed in one shot by what is basically a low-velocity hand weapon wielded by a human size combat machine. If this ability is not restricted (such as the rear of the tank or the like), then it says a lot about the relative combat capability of Belkan Kampfwagens (note Kampfwagen, not Panzerkampfwagen) in their time, none of which are very positive. Hopefully, this is because it was indeed a Kampfwagen. If it was a Panzerkampfwagen, their tanks are simply no better than the modern Middie ones.

even less damage then after her fight with Nove and Cinque.

Actually, I'm sure she was bleeding a lot less after being punched into the Midcrete by Nove. Anyway, this being the image we have to use, we now have good information on her end-state.

Though it wasn't quite as embarassing as those penetrations by airblast, whips ... etc, we can see that the BJ is not insanely effective in stopping fragmentation.

This means that the blows being exchanged during the fight between Nove, Cinque and Subaru exceeded the power of an artillery cannon during their fight in episode 17. With no active defenses being thrown up, that means her only defense was her Barrier Jacket and her Cyborg body. Cinque's and Subaru's blows had to go through an active Barrier as well, further increasing their power.

It also deals another blow to the 'measured speed is always an accurate display of power' and 'Mid buildings are made of foam' theories.

First, any attempt to relate that artillery shell to a Terran one kind of goes flat after velocity analysis.

Second, Cinque's shot wasn't really that impressive as assessed visually. So you should work your way down from the visual observation you do have to the Miriage.

Then, what kind of tank. Forget what ATC has said. Don't forget the PT-76. Or reaching back into history, the WWII Japanese tanks, or the Panzerkampfwagen I and II, the Soviet T-28, the very first British tank ... considering the low velocity of the round, it stands to reason that this is more like the tank the shell is to defeat.

For a thought in another direction, how do you know it was a hit. There was an explosion, but there was a second's delay between shot and impact. We can't expect everyone to be like Vita in Ep7 A's. Further, we don't have a clue about the quality of the Miriage's FC and stabilization, so why do you think it necessarily hit rather than say a near miss?