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Old 2010-10-02, 19:46   Link #3060
Cherry_Lover
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Then Rin decides to be harsh to Sakura. Er...shouldn’t you be a bit more considerate to someone who was raped and traumatised, Rin?
Yes, yes she should. But, Rin simply can't understand Sakura's situation at all.

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And how come no one has considered Sakura being the shadow, yet? They’ve already established that it might be independent of Zoken.
Rin and Shirou don't want to believe that the shadow is her, and Ilya actually knows, but is saying nothing because she knows that it would break Shirou for him to know the truth (and probably also further Zouken's goals...).

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I can understand Shirou trying decieve himself (This is the second time though. It may be understandable stupidity but it’s still stupidity) but Rin?
Rin has been decieving herself for years. I mean, think about it. The last time Rin saw Sakura before they were split up, she had black hair, Rin's coloured eyes and was happy. She comes across her a few years later (whenever she first sees her) and Sakura has purple hair and eyes and is thoroughly depressed. Which, BTW, Rin noticed (including the fact that Rin knows that Sakura is only happy around Shirou, which puts her actions in UBW into a new light...). Plus, she knows that Shinji is being at least moderately abusive. To not work out that something is seriously wrong, she has to have been deluding herself.

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And Zoken refuses to have Assassin kill Shirou and Rin because of arrogance and sadism. *sigh* So he’s just as bad as Gilgamesh.
Actually, it's perfectly logical. If he kills them, then there's no-one to break Sakura.

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Speaking of Gilgamesh, he attacks Sakura AND GETS TAKEN OUT. Let’s clarify this shall we? Gilgamesh...fucking Gilgamesh gets caught in the Worf Effect. Holy shit...
Well, it's perfectly logical. Also, he lost due to his arrogance, like usual.

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So Shirou’s desperately trying to deny what Sakura is doing. There’s no easy way to say this but Shirou officially has blood on his hands. People have already died and he knows they’ve died because of his indecision.
He didn't know what was going on, and it is somewhat unfair to expect him to murder the girl he loves in cold blood on a hunch.

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Let’s ignore the massive coincidence that the only two girls to notice Shirou then just happened to have been related in such a ridiculously fucked up and unlikely way.
Or, alternately, Rin was originally there to watch someone else.....

Think about it. Sakura went to that school (Shinji was at Shirou's middle school, so it stands to reason that Sakura would be too), but Rin did not (since she was with Issei, which Shirou would know if he were there too). Rin is also known to have watched over Sakura from a distance. So, the logical conclusion is that she was there to check up on Sakura, and happened to see Shirou and fall for him.

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Well Shirou comes to the dilemma of whether or not to kill her and decides to not to. He essentially becomes a bad guy. This would’ve been good if the game wasn’t making Shirou out to be a good guy instead:
Spoiler for wut:
Why? Not wanting to kill an innocent person, no matter how much of a danger they are, does not make you a "bad guy". Also, it's notable that no-one dies from this point on, except for a few people who thoroughly deserve it.

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Personally I would’ve rationalized it by getting the whole picture first and not just take Zoken’s word for it.
Well, this is pretty much what I did.

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I wonder what incredibly convenient plot element will be added now to turn things around so Shirou doesn’t have to become a complete monster?
How does not wanting to murder an innocent girl in cold blood make you a complete monster?

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(for some reason she didn’t think to extend that command to include Shirou).
Well, a) he wasn't there and b) she knows damn well that he would ignore any attempt from Rider to stop him, which might well result in Rider killing him (which she obviously doesn't want).

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Apparently he subscribes to a philosophy and believes that intentions don’t matter and Sakura must repay for her crimes with something of equal value (Personally I think it’s actually ALL Zoken’s fault and Sakura is completely blameless but whatever. I’m not dickish enough to say my views are right and his isn’t)
I am....

Those views are completely ridiculous. How can you blame someone for something they are completely blameless for?

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NOT try and kill Zoken or some strange reason.
At this point I don't think she can. The only way she could kill him is by removing the worm from her heart. Plus, Dark Sakura is Sakura when she's finally become mentally weakened enough to submit to Angra Mainyu. Zouken can control her pretty easily in that state.

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You know, you could’ve tried that before Rin got caught in the evil mud...
Wouldn't have worked. Sakura wanted to make Rin suffer (to some extent), and she needed to drain Rin in order that she couldn't fight, but there was enough of the old Sakura still in there not to want to kill her

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And what’s up with Rin? Did she know that Sakura was killing people all along or something.
No, she didn't. If she did, she'd have almost certainly killed her.

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So Shirou, Ilya AND Rin knew but none of them talked to each other about it and form a plan together because they were afraid of each other and facing up to the issue. Brilliant. Nice Job Breaking It you three.
Well, a large part of HF is driven by the fact that Rin and Shirou are rather idiotic in certain aspects (in particular, Rin's emotional intelligence seems to be stuck at the same level it was at when her father died...).

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Odd Sakura doesn’t seem that crazy actually.
It's more that the normal Sakura can still exert some amount of control on occasion.

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Blatant lies. You know what else are blatant lies? This:
Spoiler for Lies:
Yeah, lol. In fact, it's provably false, because Shirou is younger than Ilya, who is 18 (Fate/Zero proves it), and Sakura is younger than him. There's no way that Sakura can be 18. Not to mention that they're in the first/second year of high school. Sakura is 15 (nearly 16), Rin is 16/17 (her birthday is on about day 4 of the game) and Shirou is 16 or 17.

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I refuse to accept the idea its okay to dedicate yourself to one person if it means at the expense of others.
What, you mean like everyone in the world does. After all, if you gave the money you spend on yourself and on gifts to your family to charities, it could feed hundreds of people in Africa. We all do it, whether it be intentionally or unintentionally, and all HF Shirou does is realise that it's natural to care for some people more than others, and that it doesn't make you a "bad person" if you protect your loved ones first and foremost.

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This was very touching; however, I can NOT accept the fact that Sakura is blaming herself for this. As far as I can see, she’s totally blameless in everything, so it’s a bit hard for me to accept that this is what snaps Sakura back into reality.
Well, it's clearly wrong, but remember that Sakura has precisely zero self-esteem, so it's pretty natural for her to think that way.

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But he says Sakura has to take responsibility. Like I said, I think these are beliefs that are conflicting with my own so it’s kinda irritating that THIS turns out to be the Epiphany Therapy that suddenly cures Sakura of her trauma.
I like to think that he was simply telling her that because it's what she wants to hear, and the easiest way for him to get her to accept being saved. Because you're entirely right that she doesn't bear any responsibility for what happened.

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That is really fucking convenient. Wait, couldn’t Shirou have just projected rule breaker before the final fight and show it to Rin to tell her “look, you don’t have to kill her. You can just break the contract using this!” That wouldn’t have worked why?
He has a limited number of projections. Every time he makes a weapon, he gets weaker, and I would imagine that maintaining Rule Breaker for Rin to use over that period of time would cause her problems. Plus, he can't be sure that Rin would agree, or that she wouldn't avoid using it. He felt that he had to do it himself.

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WTF, did Ilya poke-evolve?
She's wearing the "Dress of Heaven" that she needs for the ritual. And I think Zouken is hallucinating somewhat.

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Damn it, I can’t believe this bastard gets a Redemption Equals Death. He so shouldn’t get one.
Yeah, I think that's one of the few bits about HF that manages to enrage just about everyone. Although, he doesn't really get Redemption Equals Death, because he's not done anything to be redeemed.

[quote]But Ilya makes up for it by making a touching Heroic Sacrifice.[/quotr]

Yeah....

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WTF?! Rider was saved but not Saber?!?!
It's not the Saber route. Rider was easy to save (Sakura just had to make a contract with her again, since she has the same Od levels as Rin (once the worms are gone), and it's proven in UBW that Rin is capable of supporing a servant without the Grail, so not keeping Rider around would have seemed like a cop-out.

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And why the hell did they act like Shirou was dead.
Suspense....

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And the normal ending is just too depressing for me to even comment on.
Yeah....

:'(

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And whether or not you empathise with Sakura can be a major factor in your enjoyment of this route.
Yeah, this is true. There seems to be a pretty clean divide between the two. People who empathise with Sakura like HF, those who don't tend not to like it.

Last edited by Cherry_Lover; 2010-10-03 at 08:25.
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