[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

So, you'd have sympathy for the poor person crying that they only make $500,000 a year? Because the taxes on that kind of money is a real pain to handle. Where is the empathy there?

I guess I failed to convey the proper analogy.
To put it in a bullet point: let's assume, A and B. A earns 5000, B earns 8000. B isn't really satisfied, but A believe it is B's situation is "nice". Does this mean that B has to follow the same conclusion?
Of course, the analogy is faulty because of the lack of circumstances. What I was trying to point is that you simply cannot conclude "someone shouldn't complain if someone else is fine with the same situation, or something worse".

A given situation can only be gauged by that person alone, when it is about emotional response.

It shows that it is possible to live with, and live quite well at that. If Kyoko was having a hard time accepting it, too, then I might start to see it. To keep using your money example.... How much sympathy do you have for someone who whines about paying taxes on their $100,000 a year salary? If it's shown that there are other people making that kind of money and living a nice life, then it kinda puts to lie to the idea that making $100,000 a year is somehow bad. Yeah, sure, Sayaka could honestly be broken up about only making $100,000 a year. But I wouldn't have much sympathy for that. Would you?

Again, I have hard time to actually consider that train of thought, because you involve yourself or another character, and put people on balance for the same problem, whereas it is something you cannot quantify in term of psychological impact.
Kyoko can live with that, but is it really something she would have accepted readily if Kyuubey was honest from the get go? As far it is shown in Episode 6, she wasn't pleased by this prospect a single bit.

So I will use the very same point you are always claiming: do you have proof that Kyoko is "fine living like that"? Can you attest that she isn't convincing herself that it is "fine"? Can you really prove that she wasn't pulling a facade?

Jab aside, I personally don't think the answer of that is important. The main point is that I just can't see an actual objective and practical way to -compare- very personal situations between different individuals, even if the said situations are exactly the same.

One example: Sayaka. Kyoko and Homura have both accepted it, in albeit different fashions(And it didn't take Kyoko long). That's 2 out of 3 MG's.

Then let's take another "subtle" example: Homura explained that no one (as, other MG) would believe her. I personally see it as a denial, which means that should reality strike them hard, they will have as much difficulty as Sayaka to accept that.

Also, considering how Homura was behaving with Madoka, I don't think you can call that "accepted it". Feel free to disagree, but to me, Homura basically forsake herself and just proceed to her objective, it doesn't mean she can live with it.
In fact, despite being the most cynical, she herself contemplates the statement that she isn't human... and that's from your level headed character.

And again, that is in their mind, and for them to overcome. We ALL have things about ourselves we don't like. Does everyone break down into whiny angst over it? Being able to accept things about you, is also human. So in a way, Sayaka even asking herself these questions is proof that she's still human. If she throws that away as the ending psycho sequence demonstrates, then she'll have lost her humanity.

Except there is a vast difference: Sayaka's status is impossible to reverse and was inflicted to her while she didn't ask for it. Of course, you probably gonna use example such like a handicapped person born as they are, but they -lived- like that from the start. Whereas Sayaka was perfectly normal and got the short end of a stick which wasn't what she was asking for.

In the end, she is torn by the conflict generated that her goal and means were upside down. She didn't save Kyousuke in order to be a MG, she turned into a MG to save Kyousuke for her own sake. She thought she was doing the former, but she is actually doing the latter, and it is striking her badly as she realize she isn't righteous as she thought to act.

There is nothing good or bad about a trope. It's just a tool, and every show has them. I merely brought it up to illustrate my issue with the show. Hey, I can understand it would be upsetting to learn, but then you are left with two choices: accept it, or angst about it. Which option is the smarter one, I'll leave as an exercise to the reader.

The trope itself isn't the issue, it is how it is used that can become a liability. Expecting everything to turn exactly like a trope is foolish to be frank, and likewise, expecting a trope not working because all conditions aren't filled isn't any good either. In the end, I would rather gauge by the situation itself, than just comparing with a stoic example and deliberately saying "not the same / same" just because of arbitrarely criteria made by whoever created the trope.

And I don't think "accept it" is always the smarter choice, because it would mean that you would be "okay" that the said source of the issue was fine. Accepting the situation may be synonym of "moving on" at times, but it is also synonym of "turning a blind eye to it".
To each of its own, it is rather case by case basis, instead of expecting such situation to be clear cut.

To a degree, I agree. She did seem to accept it and come out firm after a couple of days. Part of my issue is in the convenient timing of Hitomi's chat, Sayaka healthily dealing with it by recognizing her issues and having a good cry on a friend's shoulder... and then watching her instantly regress to psycho at the end. Kamijou got over his outburst, so I'll forgive her if she gets over it next episode (although at this point, I'm expecting more convenient outcomes designed to push Sayaka into full nutball territory).

I think there are enough details already explained before: that Hitomi was shown interested in Episode 2, that Sayaka wasn't anything subtle when Kyousuke showed up. In fact, she was definitely acting weird, and who knows for how long Hitomi knows Sayaka (fairly long time if we consider that she calls Sayaka her precious friend).
And if Hitomi knows how many times Sayaka was visiting Kyousuke at the hospital, it doesn't require rocket science that Sayaka is in love with him, but the time elapsed for this "non confession" period and the recent awkward behaviour she had probably spelled some action required for Hitomi.

And the good cry of Sayaka doesn't mean she deep down accepted it and acknowlodged what she said to Madoka. Even if she realize the issue, her conflict definitely didn't get any answer at all, leading her to snap.