[Cipher]

First of all, this is getting out of hand. I started discussing less-flamy topics but it still ended to this. We will definitely find no compromise if we're discussing very subjective issues. My last suggestion is to always keep that strong conviction on your faith because what truly matters are your actions. (I'm hoping a moderator/admin would close this thread already).

Originally Posted by Siddyus

Umm, since when religion became a "theory"? for all I know. People view it as it as the real thing. That everything that is stated in their holy book really happened. No proof needed. And the presence of God has never been valid yet scientifically. There is just no way to ever validate it.

Knowing is never the same as believing.

No, Christianity's God is God/The Father. Jesus is God's son and the saviour of our race.

Are you christian?

A test? I'd say that is BS. If he is "all merciful" and benevolent. He should have just forgave us long ago. All I can say is. Religion is self contradicting. As flawed as the humans who first thought of it.

I did not say he is ultimately merciful---that would be the complete essence of stupidity. Like I've said, an extremity in anything is the wrong way of doing things. Moderation is best.

He gave us independence. Yet he made a "hell" so unbelievers would be punished. Then whats the point of our independence then if our so-called God only desires for use to believe on him and be faithful even though he already had forsaken us?

I did not say that "unbelievers will be punished". What matters most are actions. Although Honestly, there is no definite line on the possibility of one going to hell or heaven."God only knows."

Originally Posted by SeedFreedom

Personally, i find "God did it" a cheap way out of explaining the workings of the universe. Sure science has not always been right. In fact it often needs to be updated, tweaked, or corrected, but that leads us to more answers, and more questions, and more answers. We are always growing and learning instead of just "it is because it is".

It really is highly more complex than "It is because it is." Ironically, it is so complex that it cannot and will not be clearly defined by science. It is more complex than science, or human understanding, in that some people are prone to accept "it is because it is". I, for one, don't agree with that mentality.

If god isn't going to save me, why does he give me temptation and weakness and doubt if he knows i can't fight it without a strong sign? Freedom is not worth damnation if he gives me freedom to choose the wrong path and does nothing to help me onto the right one. Of course to clarify i am only speaking about the "You must believe in god and no other" rule he has. If i have harmed others or have been a general "bad" person all my life i don't expect him to save me, religious or not.

As I've continuously said, God is not there to save you.
Regarding having to teach humans what is right and what is wrong, I believe that this is actually more natural. Belief isn't as important as actions taken.

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

No, I don't believe poverty is beautiful. I believe it is fairly insignificant and not worth my consideration in judging the Earth as a whole.

As insignificant as North Korea's nukes? As insignificant as someone-who-you don't-know's life?

Humans are not the most influential beings on the planet nor are they the most important, to think otherwise is arrogance. Animals and nature there for our own existence? We ARE animals... What you're saying doesn't really make any sense to me.

...I think you have to use more of the "norms". Humans obviously have the most "power" on earth. And about the animals vs. humans, well...we have to create a line between them...considering the difference in power.

Instead of respecting the existence of a questionable entity, why not respect the Earth for what it is. Stop thinking in a anthropocentric manner and embrace the whole spectrum of nature. Whether or not a god exists, it is a very remarkable thing.

You're telling me to have a "forced satisfaction"? I can't just let things be, I am human because I choose to move.