Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig
By this argument, most mysteries fail because they don't tell you all the info right away. Almost any mystery that follows this standard you've set is pointless to read, "And then there were none" ranking high among them. Look at what I wrote. I have not suggested a single alternate truth for any of these scenes, just omitted information.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig
Don't forget what you yourself said. If the game tells you that a scene is false, then you should be happy to accept it by your own argument. Any scene where the meta world exists has no relevance to the game board except for the red text. Since you claim to be okay with having the entire game be fake as long as they tell us, why can't you accept this?
|
I'll clarify what I said. If a "story" is totally fictional I'm ok with that. if a "story" is real I'm ok with that. If a "story" is half real and half fictional I'm okay with that. If a "story" is only 10% real and 90% fictional I'm not okay with that.
I refuse to consider each scene alone, I consider the whole story as whole. Also "most mystery novels" do not lie that much and therefore they do not "fail". Usually the lies are way less than 50%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig
Edit: Come to think of it, there's no evidence in the game that supports your theory directly. In other words, you're saying the whole thing is false without anyone telling us. Doesn't this mean that your theory says the game is even more deceitful than mine does?
|
I think there are a lot of hints. In ep5 it is a fact that the games are treated as novels. The knox rules totally destroyed any possibility that the red can only apply to real facts. There are no Knox rules in the real world, they have absolutely no meaning in the real world, they only have a meaning in the mystery novel world.
There is no
detective in the real world unless the one that does it as profession. The red truth
Erika is the detective
Has absolutely no meaning in the real world. Erika is
not a detective. Erika can only be a "detective" inside a novel where she has that "role".
"There is no love in Lambda's game"
Love has been explained by Dlanor. There is a kind of relationship that is created by the reader and the writer. If there is love, the writer has love for the reader he will create a story for the reader to solve. If there's no love the story will be impossible to solve. If there's love in the reader, he will have faith that the story is solvable, if there's no love he will think the author is cheating.
Lambda's game lacks love. This is exactly what Ronove was telling to Battler. Lambda's game is not solvable. with this game Ryukishi showed us what can be done of a "game" if there's no love. He shoved in our face this fact: "you thought that Beato's game were confusing? Look at this." However this is yet another
novel analogy, and if Lambda could manipulate things that much it's because there are actually no reality limits.
There are tons of such novel analogies, but I don't think I need to prove my point any further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig
If you read my 5 rules, this problem is addressed. Red text does not change reality, it only eliminates kakera which are already impossible due to the gold text.
Also, you really can't say there's no evidence that "the winner of the game creates the truth that exists at the end", because this has been said about 50 times throughout the game, including at the first Schrodinger's Cat explanation.
|
The schroedinger's cat theory has been explained by Virgilia with the braun tube analogy. In other word it's not really a canonic copenhagen interpretation. We all know that there are
not gremlins inside a braun tube. In other words there is only one reality from the start, it is not like in the quantum physic theory where a single reality doesn't exist until observed. The red truth has been compared to the action of opening the Braun tube. However there can only be one possible already determined result from that action. If you open the braun tube you just open the braun tube, you cannot decide what's inside, you cannot create the truth. a "truth" can only be created as long as the braun tube is closed. The red truth opens it. I wonder, did we read the same story? ^^;
--Red text isn't true <- The red text isn't true in our real world isn't it? You cannot question this. The same apply for Umineko. The red truth isn't true in Battler's world, but it is true in the fictional world created by beatrice. I think I have provided enough proof that not all the red text can possibly apply to the real world
--No explanation for gold text <- true, but we don't know anything about the gold text yet. It is impossible to make theories about it right now.
--No lines in the game which directly support it <- See above
--Means that there's no point for us to use reasoning <- No. Beatrice created the stories with love, and that means they were meant to be solvable. The huge hint of ep5 is that we have been shown a novel without love that is not solvable. The way I see it, ep5 was meant to make us realize the games are like novels. When you see how preposterous the world of ep5 is, you should realize it: it is not real.
--Means that we've never seen any of the true world <- true, I guess that's a problem for you, but it is a fact that we have seen false scenes. And that means it is possible that there's more of them, maybe all of them.
--No explanation for how the game will end <- The end of the game right now can only be guessed and with most certainty wrongly so. Anyway a way for the game to end with my theory exist.
"
I keep my promise if you solve the riddle you should reach the golden land and the ceremony will end, no more people will die."
Beatrice never promised no one will die or that people will resurrect. It is simply as that: "no more people will die". Beatrice's worlds are like a riddle If Battler solves the riddle in all of its parts he will get in the real world the solution that will grant him the power to stop the tragedy. Once in the metaworld battler solves all and any of the various mysteries he will get what's really going on, he will be able to stop whatever it is happening, he will save his own life and all the lives of the remaining.
Battler never died in the real world. He only died a thousand times inside the fictional world Beatrice created.