Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesslich
'Haruhi done right' = rather boring, to be honest. There's a reason dramas feature imperfect characters - perfect ones aren't interesting, don't have flaws which make them relatable or even understandable, and people HATE those who are better than they... which is why they try to pull down anyone who even has the appearance of perfection, explaining why reality TV and celebrity gossip rags are so popular.
And I read the early chapters more for her fanservice than anything else to start, especially after her perfection started to get grating in Chapter 2 or 3. The 'hated by animals' flaw was a step towards making her less of a 'Mary Sue' and more of a character, as it showed a non-perfect side which was both relatable and not-annoying. The Swim Meet was another time when she got to show off both her strengths AND weaknesses, which made her less grating than she could be.. especially since one of Haruhi's main problems as a character is that EVERYTHING goes her way, the way she wants it, and it means that her jerkass behaviour is self-reinforcing since it always works.
I had the same issues with Medaka early on - her perfection and the way she made her beliefs work on others was... well, once is fine. Every time, on the other hand, is annoying, especially in situations where the other character has an equally strong opinion which is completely opposite of Kurokami's position, only to relent and go along with her motivations (see the Kendo Club). Thus it was kinda refreshing to see characters who refused to go along with her ideas (such as that idiot Unzen, and the rest of the 13 class), and who refuse to bow down to her ideals.
Also, I'd argue against Zenkichi being a more proactive Kyon - yes, he could express the irritation of the audience when Medaka was being perfect, but at the same time he himself was a bit too abnormal to be 'normal' and totally relatable. Kyon goes along with things because he knows that, if he doesn't, Haruhi will be totally unmanageable and thus prone to doing something stupid that'll wreck reality - Zenkichi goes along with Medaka because, while he acknowledges the ridiculousness of the situation, he believes she's right in what she thinks and is there more for color commentary and to provide exposition than to be a character to relate to.
Now, the battle scenes I could definitely do without, but the conflict between characters is providing a bit more 'story' than the series previously had in its one-shot situations where Medaka solved the problem immediately and without flaw.
Westlo: It's very human to not believe something deep-down even if your mind acknowledges the possibility. The fact that Medaka really IS as perfect as she appears only makes the gap between him and her worse - yes, she's always been around him since childhood, but that inferiority complex is to some degree justified since he really CAN'T quite match up to her in terms of intellectual talents or physical abilities. What he does do, unlike a lot of 'anime loser lead' males is try damned hard, and then not immediately give up or forget the progress he's made after it's shown he can at least approach her talents/skills/etc. Especially with Medaka's standards for what human beings are like/can be being so high.
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Saying people dislike perfect characters because they are better than them might be true in general, but personally I find that a really petty way of thinking. (What's with all this 'Haruhi done right' talk anyway? Haruhi was pretty damn good for what it was, at least until the novels stalled and we got handed that dismal excuse of a second season). As for flaws making a character more sympathetic or interesting, however, this idea seems like an incredible stretch to me (I'll give you relatable though). Personally, if a character has flaws but manages to overcome them, they generally get a neutral response from me. On the other hand, if a character is held back by those flaws or worse ends up harming others because of them, then on the whole I will usually see them as worthless.
To expand on that, though, neither Medaka or Haruhi are really perfect characters. Let's talk about a recent example from Haruhi first: throughout the early stages of the series, she's a pretty self-centered bitch. In the second book/season of the series, about the making of their movie for the school festival, after getting Mikuru dumped into a pond, Haruhi proceeds to get her drunk with spiked juice and then tries to make Koizumi kiss her. When Kyon gets angry at her and stops her, she justifies it with "Mikuru's my toy". Not 'perfection' by any definition (although...I still can't quite decide who was more of a tool in that situation. Opposing Haruhi is fine, but trying to
punch her? For the sake of some silly crush on
Mikuru?). However, contrary to the ideas being stated above, this flaw of Haruhi's made her
less likeable to me, rather than allowing me to relate to her self-centeredness. And in fact, throughout the rest of the series and in those parts in the beginning when she isn't throwing tantrums about not getting her way (e.g., when she is having fun like a normal girl or when she is expressing her sense of smallness and insignificance in the face of a sea of dull humanity), I generally find her pretty likeable.
As for Medaka; this is a pretty random time for me to be bringing this up, but I heavily disliked that chapter about the dog, and it was one of the things that contributed to my initial distaste for this series. In the first place that dog suit was ugly/freaky as hell, but beyond that the fact that one of the first
actual character traits Medaka is given is that she loves animals (lame), and is sad they don't get along with her (even lamer), just leaves a bad impression. This supposed flaw (actually though, wouldn't 'loving animals' supposedly be a sympathetic, relatable, positive/'perfect' trait?) just made her seem pathetic to me (well the repulsive suit I mean, and it didn't even work), and her generic motivation never grabbed me either. So Medaka's
other character trait (wanting to 'help people'), and the similar impossibility and pointlessness of the two, combined to make me see Medaka as an extremely generic and shallow character (perhaps, I might point out, precisely
because of how mundanely relatable those two motivations/flaws were--yes, btw, I think I will call 'loving animals' and 'wanting to help others' flaws lol :P). However, what made Medaka eventually become more interesting for me was
precisely the force and disregard for other people's opinions which she revealed (among other things later on, namely her backstory and the developing plot). The fact that Medaka is
capable, and furthermore recognizes (on whatever level) her own capability and therefore tends to disregard the useless sentiments/contributions of other parties around her, and furthermore
recognizes that she is not always correct and therefore desires to gain the help of other people who oppose her but furthermore are capable of
backing that up, is all very proper and (indeed) likeable for me. So in the end, despite her introductory vapid declaration of existing only to 'help people', the
correctness (or maybe 'perfection'
) of these aspects of Medaka's personality do make her at least somewhat relatable to me, and I find her a generally likeable character. On the other hand, Medaka's delusional insistence that she is a 'normal person', and her occasional desire to 'help' others when it would disrupt positive personal growth,
are flaws, and they are things I dislike about her character.
So to sum it all up, I think flaws are exclusively negative in terms of whether or not a character is likeable--although they might make a character more relatable, that is only for the
negative part of a character, which isn't particularly diserable anyway. I think the only challenge 'perfect' characters present for an audience is with regards to suspension of disbelief, not likeability--likeability should generally be based on the
compatibility of the character's positive aspects with the viewer. Unless you hate life/humanity/the world or are extremely selfish or something, I'd say generally, flaws remain negative, and perfection remains positive.