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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

If I had any idea what you were talking about I'd have more to say than this. I guess that means you sure got me on this one didn't you.

Your initial point was that Haruhi has never displayed the ability to "create something out of nothing". I countered with a reference to the ponytail quote because it occurred when Haruhi created a completely new universe that consisted of only herself and Kyon. I thought the reference would be obvious, but I clearly overestimated your knowledge of the series.

I don't buy that for one second actually. People keep using that as a means to link Endless Eight to what happened in this movie, but that's something that can only be done purely at the will of the viewer since Nagato showed zero emotion throughout that whole affair. I choose not to attach feelings to a character based on something that might not actually be there or related to a specific event. That's the sort of thing fan-fiction is for, not for canon which is what I'm concerned about.

If you actually believe that there was no visible sign that Yuki was breaking down during endless eight, I seriously think you're just seeing what you want to see.

I can point to numerous screen caps that blatantly show Yuki being visibly depressed by the ordeal. There is also the fact that Kyon freaking mentions how "Nagato doesn't look right" and asks her "are you okay?" EVERY FREAKIN EPISODE of EE!

Seriously, for a guy who can nitpick and whine about the most trivial and superficial of details about the disappearance movie, I am completely dumbfounded by your lack of attention to really basic plot points already established in the series.

No but I didn't really expect her to steal the show out from under the title character the way she did in Disappearance. Like I said if Nagato can just do whatever to Haruhi then it makes the intrigue of the character just that much lesser.

Well, that's just, like, your OPINION, man.

The real question I'm asking is why undermine your title character's intrigue like that after going to all the trouble to pose the god or not question like Koizumi did in the first novel?

The charm of Haruhi's character has never been dependent upon whether or not she was "God" or not. Koizumi was just throwing out a hypothesis when he referenced Haruhi as "God" anyway. People just latched on to his hypothesis because it was the easiest to understand.

After all the entire basis of Haruhiism and a large chunk of the franchises popularity seems to be built along with the faction that believes she's god incarnate in the franchises universe and what Nagato did pretty much dispels that idea completely.

Again, this is your opinion. I've always considered "Haruhiism" as an inside joke between Haruhi fans. I doubt anyone really takes it that seriously, but then again I might be projecting.

I thought it was because the whole quiet bookish girl thing was a popular moe fetish to be honest.

Well this speaks more about your obsession with moe more than anything else.

Is that like how the entire argument that Nagato acted the way she did in the movie because of Endless Eight was an assumption or are we talking in different terms here.

Spoiler for movie spoilers:

Did you just tune out Kyon's conversation with Nagato at the end of the film? I'm not saying that EE was the one and only cause for Yuki's actions in disappearance, but Kyon basically confirms that EE had a large part to do with Yuki's "accumulation of errors".

Spoiler for movie spoilers:

This just made me think of another set of questions. If Nagato can't create data from scratch then how is Ryoko there in the movie if she's supposed to have been removed from existence already? How is she there and alive again and who created her if not the data entity since in the current timeline that's how she was supposed to have been made? If the data entity exists then why isn't it doing something to fix what Nagato broke on it's own? If it doesn't exist how does Ryoko exist unless Nagato somehow created her to exist in the alternate timeline? If she can make Ryoko exist again then how is that any different from what Haruhi does by supposedly creating "data" which the Data Entity and it's subordinates supposedly can't do? Furthermore if the Data Entity created Nagato and Ryoko as sentient beings then how is that any different from what Haruhi does? There are more questions I could raise here but I'll just leave it at that for now since I'm going to bed.

Spoiler for movie spoilers:

The alternate world you saw in the movie was based upon the manipulation of preexisting data, specifically the alteration of Haruhi's decision to enter North High School to find John Smith. Ryoko was not created out of nothing, she already existed (albeit in the past) and was simply edited in the same fashion that Haruhi, Koizumi, and Yuki were. Adult Mikiru even confirms the fact that the alternate world is not a newly created parallel world, but rather the same world just manipulated beyond recognition.

Anyway I completely botched what I meant to say in that quote so it doesn't really matter I suppose.

The bit about responding to the characters popularity was an aside because I know that kind of thing happens all the time over there, the cheated feeling is definitely there because the intrigue about Haruhi's powers and why the Data Entity would want to study her are kind of gone now that it's been shown that she's hardly all that powerful at all compared to Nagato or the Data Entity. If that's the course they want to pursue now then so be it. I'm just saying that it strikes me as inconsistent with the way they were building her abilities in the first novel. The whole desperately trying to understand her bit that the Data Entity has going on takes a blow when you can just toss her into an alternate reality and completely rewrite her memories from beyond a certain point in time. Again I guess my concerns just aren't the same as the core fanbases here.

We've already gone through this. Haruhi has the unique ability to create vast amounts of data out of nothing, and has already displayed this ability. Nagato and the Data Entity, have never shown the capacity to create data out of nothing, and have admitted to being incapable of doing so. For this reason, the Data Entity wants to OBSERVE Haruhi so that they can learn more about her unique skills. Brain-washing her into oblivion such that she doesn't have her powers anymore doesn't help them achieve their goal.