[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Didnt the EA lose both artemis, the 6th space fleet among others to ensue the AAs safety? im quite sure the losses hit both sides quite hard.

...which further reinforces the point that the Archangel and the Strike isn't just "one ship and one MS" you're going on about. It really shows that the EA is also willing to sacrifice a lot of their own men just to make sure it wasn't captured by ZAFT. You don't waste a lot of resources just so "one ship and one MS" can survive.

Yeah, im sure i mentioned it in a earlier post of mine, if i didnt im sorry, ORB was invaded by the EA because of what i mentioned in my earlier post, when Uzumi did the "Heroic sacrifice" the EA had no interest in them anymore (unless mentioned in other side materials, ill just disregard them for now since this is the anime we are talking about, someone fill me in on the details here if im missing out on something)

I am not really sure, but I think it was shown that Azrael also wanted to invade Orb right away, and it's not just because of one mass driver - there is its' highly advanced technology to speak of. Azrael basically told Orb "join up or we'll see your inaction to do so as betrayal/joining up with the Coordinators and we'll take over your country". When Uzumi did the "heroic sacrifice" it burnt down Orb effectively, rendering it useless - it allowed Uzumi to protect Orb's technological assets as well. Pretty much it destroyed the EA's chance of getting a free mass driver, and it also destroyed their chance to get their hands on Orb's superior technology. It just wasn't because the EA lost interest in Orb once the mass driver was destroyed.

Also at the beginning of Destiny, Orb was in a position wherein the Junius Treaty even had specifically prohibited them in lending their military technological know-how to either ZAFT or the EA. This also points to Orb being a military power so powerful it can swing either side to victory in a war.

Orb can stand on its own as a nation, but it cant survive a prolonged conflict against the EA or Zaft, nor deter their full forces as shown in both Seed and Destiny.

(read monsters post for the rest, he summed it up quite nicely)

We were only shown bits of what Orb is like during invasion. We weren't given a chance to see how it is like without an imminent invasion. Partly thanks to its nonsensical ideology, Orb was never really shown to fully show its muscle. However even given these, Orb was not taken lightly in the sense that other countries will invade it just for teh lulz. Pretty much if that's the case, any country can go against Orb because of their "lacking" military resources, but we weren't given any of that during the entire run of the anime, or even in side materials.

Basically, this is the reason why Shinn hated the Athhas. it was more of them protecting the country's ideals rather than think of the consequences it will have and its effects on all the people who trusted in Orb. And also the fact that Orb was heavily implied that it can compete directly with ZAFT/EA in military technology, but they'd rather have it burned down than protect their citizens.

Originally Posted by monster

It's a moot point since Athrun decided to take on the Archangel on his own.

Are you referring to where exactly? Their SEED Orb infiltration as spies?

Except Orb was taken over by the EA in SEED.

Except during that point, it was already at the end of the series. Also we are arguing about how easy it is to take over Orb just for teh lulz, without the urgency of imminent invasion. It's funny how the series paints Orb as some kind of untouchable country (given the facts I have pointed out earlier and how it is implied), but gets easily overwhelmed in 2 - 3 episodes, max.

It's a shared power. Cagalli simply failed to gain enough supporters for her cause back then.

SEED had everything going for Cagalli, heck, she was a heroine of that war. If any, it should give cause for people to support her, as well as being Uzumi's daughter. However, we didn't see Seirans doing anything politically noteworthy until they sided with the EA. Given the 2 year gap before Destiny, the Seirans could already have completely taken control of the Orb Union and would have already forced Cagalli to marry Yuna if they were so completely in power at that point. They still waited for 2 damn years to be in a position where they can easily tell Cagalli to accept their terms.