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Originally Posted by monster
It was on NJC to prevent the use of nuclear weapons. You can't ban something that's already been deployed deep under the Earth.
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I repeat: The ban was on NJ's, not NJCs. The NJs were being dug out.
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That point is irrelevant since it doesn't mean that Cagalli would condone the use of nuclear weapons.
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How does that make it irrelevant? The original point was me commenting on the naivety of a government to put all their hopes on a treaty and think it'll work on it's own. You said Cagalli was simply that idealistic which as I've proven wasn't really the case. Just because it doesn't prove she's for nuclear weapons as a deterrent, that automatically means the rest of Orb is against it?
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Of course not, because they're prepared to counter another attack.
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Which means the situations are completely different. Unlike in this case, EA didn't have their eyes set on a nuclear attack on Orb immediately and were currently in negotiations with them. And a nuclear attack was never specifically mentioned as their reason to form the treaty so it's highly unlikely that they were under that kind of pressure and had time.
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But after rereading what you post after the part in bold, my answer will be that ZAFT wasn't surprised by the second attack.
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Except that they were surprised. If you watch the episode again, you'll see that they were clearly surprised and would have all been wiped out had it not been for Athrun and Kira.
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It is when that demonstration wiped out your entire nuclear weapons that you have on hand. Not only did the stampede destroyed those already launched, they destroyed those missiles that are still in the ships.
It basically turned the EA ships that are carrying those weapons into a walking time bomb, so to speak. And since you need to get relatively close to your target to make use of the nuclear weapons, it's too risky in the face of such an effective display of countermeasure.
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More riskier than outright mobile suits battles? If they have enough money to spend on humongous Destroys and a giant death laser, then they have the money to make more nuclear weapons and experiment with them at different ranges.
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A plot hole is something that breaks the consistency of the story. By definition, you cannot have a consistent plot hole because such a recurring event would become part of the story's consistency. At worst, you could say it's a plot device, but not a plot hole. .
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Imo, a plothole is something that breaks either
internal or external consistency. But now we're just talking semantics. For the record i don't actually think it's the same as GENESIS.
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Only when the world suddenly turned against them. By then, it's too late
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Not only then. They were on the back even before then and before than they were still at a stalemate with ZAFT and not getting anywhere.
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But think about this, in both SEED and Destiny, the final battle still ended up in space. So the Earth isn't really as important as long as the EA can get at the PLANTs in space.
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So what you've just done is proven that Orb really shouldn't be worried about the EA after all.
Thankfully for you, I don't really agree. It may have ended up in space in Destiny but only because Jibril was backed into fleeing into space. That doesn't mean Earth isn't important to them. He spent a lot of time demonstrating his power on Earth after all. He planned to wipe out
all of ZAFT. That would have to include the ZAFT on Earth as well.
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Just because the EA didn't get anything last time doesn't mean that they never will. They obviously had enough power to defeat Orb. It just depends on how quickly they can do it.
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We're looking at the situation from Orb's perspective here. If Orb are already thinking EA might do something quickly, then the EA are definitely not gonna get their hands on anything because Orb are clearly already prepared.
And even if we're not looking at it from Orb's perspective, the Golden Gundam already proves EA won't get jack.
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Another thing: anyone's perspective is not the same as EA's perspective. So, again, Orb cannot make a decision by assuming that the EA would be reasonable.
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That also means Orb can not make any assumption that EA is an actual threat to them and thus a 180 degree reversal is not required and they can remain neutral.
The truth is, Orb has to consider the EA's perspective so that they know what they can do to avoid conflict. No they won't have control over EA's perspective but what they decide to do is obviously going to be based on what they think EA's perspective is. And the fact of the matter remains that from Orb's perspective, EA will not be looking at them at all, so Orb have plenty of time and they don't have to make a treaty so quickly.
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I didn't say the EA was "belligerent to Orb" throughout the two years. I said Orb would still know about the EA just by living in the same world.
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And what does that prove? Yuna makes the point that EA is still a danger to them. That's the kind of perspective I'm calling BS on in the first place.
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And their perspective led them to join the EA.
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Which is what I'm calling BS on since their perspective should've have clearly been different.
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It's about power levels. If Orb did not have a decent military power, Athrun would have no excuse not to pursue his target.
His whole reason for wanting to get proof was because of Orb's military power.
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All that proves is that power levels is one factor, which I wasn't denying. The fact remains is that he considered the rest of ZAFT's involvement to be a bad thing. If it was all about power levels, then why would the rest of ZAFT's involvement be a bad thing?