[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

To be fair, functional competition would drive down to profit margins and improve the service provided to the consumer.

Of course, I've never really thought that health care is a product where competition really works so...

Competition and the usual economic models don't really work in healthcare. The big reason is over the nature of the product and the power of the consumer. The ultimate power of the consumer is in the power to say "no" to a purchase. Is the price too high for what you're getting? You can walk away, and if enough people walk away, the business is forced to lower the price or retool something that they're doing. Few people have that choice with healthcare, because the "product" in question is your body, livelihood, and/or life. How much are you willing to pay for that? They're priceless: many would pay everything that they owned (and then some). All of the power in the consumer-seller relationship is on the seller.

There are a lot of problems with our system, but a big one is that we rely on insurance for everything. Think about it: does your car insurance come into play whenever you have routine maintenance done on your vehicle? Do you utilize your homeowner's insurance whenever you renovate your house? No to both, and yet when you visit the doctor for a routine checkup or purchase some basic prescription drugs, your insurance comes into play. Why?

I don't know enough about the business side of medicine to say whether people choosing to self-pay and use their health insurance only for major incidences would lower costs all around (although I do know that doctor's offices hate having to go after uninsured people to get them to pay up). It's an interesting consideration all the same.

Originally Posted by Bri

Health insurance is not the same as health care, two completely different markets.

They're different, but they both affect each other rather intricately.

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

Reading the post-debate commentary from some of my friends on the other side, I'm just thinking that they're just cheering that "Romney won" because they think he'll just flip back to "Conservative Mitt" if he wins the election. Seriously the only reason he "won" this debate was by outright asserting that he didn't say or even KNOW what he was saying just a few days prior. Complete 180 and renunciation of the Republican economic platform and acceptance of current Democratic orthodoxy isn't something I'd be cheering for substance wise.

What I took out from the debate was a cementing of my initial perception of Romney as the worst of possible politicians. Willing to abrogate his principles (47% tape) and outright lie just to gain political points and win office. And I thought John McCain was bad in 2008. u_u

I think few people listened to the debates for substance (which, to be fair, there wasn't really much) and most were watching it as if it were a football game. People on both sides just wanted to see their candidate get the upper hand. While I support Obama's policies, Romney was the clear "winner." Obama spoke slowly and paused frequently, and he didn't really pick apart anything that Romney was saying. His heaviest line of attack seemed to be bringing up a difference, explaining it loosely, and then remarking to the camera that "if you think Romney is right, then he's your candidate." The explanation insinuated that Romney's plans didn't add up, but Obama never came out and said it directly. That was a bit frustrating, because there were plenty of holes in Romney's statements and arguments, but Obama didn't shed light on them.

By comparison, Romney was very fluid, spoke passionately and never stumbled, and seemed to critique Obama's plans while promoting his own. He seemed much more energetic, informed, and passionate compared with Obama. His debate performance was really exceptional.

I actually found myself agreeing with Romney throughout much of the debate, which was puzzling to me. Others have pointed out the reason already: he flipped his stances. He's been espousing a strict conservative view leading up to the debates, but during the debate he made a hard shift toward the center. What is his true view, and what is he really going to do? I honestly couldn't tell you.

I'm looking forward to the next few debates either way.