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Old 2012-10-11, 07:03   Link #30810
GoldenLand
Eaten by goats
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
I agree with Drifloon's arguments countering your points, Pikablu, but there are some things I'll add to that, and some questions for your conclusions and theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikablu View Post

1) Also Knox's 8th states:

It is forbidden for the case to be solved without clues that are presented.

There was never any indication of Erika's position being significant, or that Shannon/Kanon could be behind her.
There are many clues presented in Umineko for Shannon and Kanon being the same person. Your use of Knox's 8th above is inapplicable, unless you can prove that there are no clues to Shkanon presented in Umineko, which I really don't think is possible for you to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikablu View Post
9) Another point about the Shkanon theory, why must Kanon not leaving a corpse behind mean Shannon = Kanon?
Like Drifloon says, it doesn't have to. However, in a situation where there are two "people" with one body, then if they both die for real, one of them must not leave a corpse. (Can't have two people in one body and also have a separate corpse for each of them!)

But since you're on that topic - counter this section from ep 8, if you can. Why does Kanon go missing forever any time that Shannon gets killed? If Kanon and Shannon are not the same person, what does this section mean?

Quote:
Bern: "......At the time Shannon is killed, Kanon goes missing forever. From now on, Kanon is treated as being killed. Also, Kanon's master key is treated as being destroyed."

Lambadelta: "Well, I thought it'd be rude, so I kept quiet about it, but that's what happens when Shannon dies."

Beato: "In other words, we can say that Shannon and Kanon were killed at the same time, even though we're missing a corpse?"

Bern: "That's right."
Anyway, now onto looking at your theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikablu View Post
ShKanon is purely metaphorical. Yasu is completely metaphorical concept, used to explain the closeness of 2 people rather than Yasu herself being a person creating 2 different people.

The suffering, the anguish of 2 different people are brought together into Yasu. I think it's not at all Yasu creating 2 different people but the fact that Kanon and Shannon (2 distinct people) were immensely close and so shared with each other their ideas and dreams and then when one died, the other would take up their ideas and dreams (so become one with them) and as a result create Yasu who would then complete both people's dreams instead of just the initial one.

Here's my theory:

1) Kanon and Shannon are 2 different people to begin with
2) They are close and share their dreams/ideas with each other
3) One dies by accident or EP6 duel actually happens
4) The one who survives takes up the ideas and dreams of the other and thus is living one life but for 2 people
5) whether this includes murder or not (so whether they are the culprit or not) is not being contested FOR THE MOMENT, it may be limited
Okay then, I have questions for you to respond to. There are many more, but these are just a few.

- If Shannon and Kanon are fully separate people, why was Beatrice also a participant in the Love Duel?

- Why is it that only one of Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice's loves could be fulfilled, and why is it that they could only become human and fulfill their love if the other two were defeated and disappeared? Can you explain this with your theory without contradicting the game?

The reason given in the games is that they did not possess a complete soul, and in order for one of them to realise their love and obtain a complete soul, the "incomplete souls" of Kanon, Shannon and Beatrice had to become one. The three of them add up to one person. The duel was a way of deciding who must vanish/die in order for the victor to be complete.

- Knox’s 8th: It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented. What is your evidence for saying that when one out of Kanon or Shannon dies, the other one takes on their hopes and dreams and lives for two people?

I say that extremely clear evidence contradicting your idea of them taking on the other's dreams exists.

Shannon and Kanon's dreams conflict with each other. Early in the game, they talk about their dreams as "contradicting dreams". Later, the Love Duel makes it clear that only one of their dreams can be realised, and that for one of them to get what they want, it will be be by "crushing" the happiness of the other. Shannon wants to leave the island and marry George. Kanon wants to stay on the island and develop his relationship with Jessica.

How can one of them live for two and fulfill both of their dreams the way you claim?

Quote:
Shannon: "So,......since it's a cat box, the world where I spend my life with George-sama and the world where you spend your life with Milady can both exist at the same time."

Kanon: "......It's a world where any contradicting dreams can exist at once."
- If Shannon and Kanon are completely separate people, how did Kanon save Battler in ep 6? And why was it that that "trick is a part of Beato's heart" which, when used, means that "part of Beato's heart will be exposed"?

- If they are completely separate people, why did Shannon go all blue screen of death at Will back in ep 7 when she was asked to bring Kanon so that Will could talk to the pair of them at the same time?
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