[Ice Block]

Don't mind us.

Originally Posted by Haak

I already told you. He clearly identified it was a serious situation and something as silly as wanting to win the game shouldn't override the fact that if he doesn't want to disappear so much then he should've played it safe and dropped out.

Hence why he was actively denying his disappearance. He didn't want to disappear. He didn't think that he'd disappear. Furthermore, even if he did go through with the catch, there is no guarantee that he would disappear. All these are juxtaposed with him wanting to win the match.

Originally Posted by Haak

I already told you. I’m not after an implication. I’m asking for evidence that suggests it’s your way rather than mine.

That implication suggests it. I don't see why it shouldn't. In fact, tell me why you think it shouldn't.

Originally Posted by Haak

And what does this prove that I don’t already know? I already knew that Hinata was with the SSS. Then it stands to reason that Hinata wouldn’t want to disappear because if he did he wouldn’t be in the SSS anymore and would've gone over to Kanade already. I don’t need to read chapter 3 to know that. That was a freaking given. My point is that Hinata wanting to catch the ball was his ‘true self’. It’s possible to have contradictory desires you know. And it’s possible to live by one desire, but, in the heat of the moment, choose the contradicting desire when ‘caught in the moment’.

He knows how to disappear, but he didn't go down that route. Does this not imply that his "true self" has significantly deprioritized his disappearance? Stop ignoring evidence. How can that be his true self when there wasn't even any buildup or reference to it which suggests this anywhere in the time before and after that event? If anything, that was a sign of abnormal behavior, along with his melancholic moments in that episode. See, reminiscing about your past =/= "true self" or w/e. Even his thought process in Track Zero is a far cry from that emotional Hinata in Ep04. Are you implying that he is one extremely dishonest fellow?

Originally Posted by Haak

So it’s wrong then. They were surprised because they saw someone disappear right in the front of them. Totally unfair to saying Yuri should also be surprised when she didn’t have that luxury.

Experience. When you're already used to such phenomenon, you won't be surprised when such phenomenon happens again.

Originally Posted by Haak

Kanade never reacts to anything. She was shot in the freaking stomach and didn't react. She didn't look surprised when evil Tenshi appeared. And you can't use Evil Kanade as an example. That's evil Kanade. She was also evil (which Kanade wasn't). It takes a lot to make Kanade react (like her losing her meal ticket for her favourite food).

Contradictory much? Anyway, reading Kanade's emotions is easy mode compared to, say, Nagato Yuki. Wanna see her looking surprised? Review the Naoi massacre -- her gestures imply as much when Naoi asks her if she's rebelling against God, and she widens her eyes in one shot during the hug. Mildly annoyed? Ep03, "It's almost like I'm the bad guy" scene. Slight interest? Ep06, when Otonashi begs her to help the SSS. Sadness? Right when she exclaims that there is no one she can call a "friend" in the afterlife. Reluctance/uneasiness? When Otonashi invited her to go fishing. Curiosity? Checking out the fishing materials. Anger/frustration? When she was charging against the first clone. And this is excluding everything after the Dark Archon merge in Ep08.

Originally Posted by Haak

My point still stands. The guys weren’t that surprised.
She did express emotion, though, which is contrary to your point. Just look at her and how she talks. She’s very pensive about it.

Let me make this clear: If they weren't surprised, why did they act as if they didn't know why Iwasawa disappeared, and why did they act as if they did not expect her disappearance? Also, "casually remarking" =/= emotionless. Read my post again. Now, see the difference between Yuri's reaction and the guys'. Yuri acts as if she expected it to happen, and she claims that Iwasawa accepted it herself, thus it couldn't be helped. She may have been melancholic, but she certainly wasn't surprised.

Originally Posted by Haak

But I thought you said that once you’re caught in the moment, you’re already prey to this stimulator thingy? In that case she was forced to sing.

If she was already caught in the stimulator, she would have felt utmost pleasure from the start, similar to her expression just prior to disappearance.

Originally Posted by Haak

Well obviously. If she forgot she would disappear then ofcourse she's not gonna show any hesitiation or even think of disappearing.

You misunderstand. Did she think of disappearing during the concert proper? Nope. Did she think of disappearing during the teachers' intervention? Nope. Did she think of disappearing before she played My Song? Nope. Again: To be caught in the moment, you need to actively know what you're trying to avoid/prevent before you get engrossed in the activity. Perhaps we're arguing semantics, but saying Iwasawa was caught in the moment while playing My Song does not sit well with me.

Originally Posted by Haak

My point at the start was that Iwasawa's and Hinata's case were incomparable because Hinata had the luxruy of knowing beforehand, the situation whilst Iwasawa did not.
You say that can't be since she sang that song for ages and must've known at some point.
I said that was because she was 'caught in the moment'
You're saying if she was caught in the moment she would've been actively avoiding disappearing.
But that's the thing: She could only actively avoid disappearing if she knew the situation beforehand, which is what you're trying to prove.

They're comparable because they represent two different situations that lead to the same result: disappearance. Furthermore, the real focus here was Hinata's situation. I brought up Iwasawa in order to compare the difference between the two events. If you're saying that Otonashi's question invalidates this, then know that Hinata was already nervously shaking even before their little chat -- that's the reason why Otonashi asked him about it in the first place. And, you misunderstand. I wasn't trying to prove whether Iwasawa knew she was gonna disappear or not. What I was trying to prove was that that last act, playing My Song, was somehow planned. Also, what I was saying was that if she was caught in the moment (for the whole duration of the song), she would have had thoughts of disappearing before she started playing it.

Originally Posted by Haak

You're using the wrong example. People can get 'caught in the moment' before realising such a situation can occur, and that doesn't contradict the definition you gave at the start (and if it does, then I suggest you revise your definition)

Semantics. You're definition is slightly different (and more general) than mine, since I specifically stated that you needed to know what you were trying to avoid before so that you can legitimately get "caught". If you didn't know what you were trying to avoid, you're just being engrossed in the activity.

Originally Posted by Haak

There's very little information in the first example. With Hinata, he knew exactly how he'd end up caught in the moment. How much did the drinker knew? Was drinking that big of a deal for the guy? If it's immediately threatening to his life/existence and there's someone he really cares about (like Hinata) then i just can't see that happening. This is before he’s caught in the moment. Hinata could’ve actively avoided being caught in the moment by dropping out. You can actively avoid being caught in the moment if you can see how it’ll happen and you care enough. By your logic, Hinata should've cared enough.

Not relevant. You only need to know about it. Consider this:

party = playing baseball
drinking = disappearing

Catching the ball is part of the game. Hinata doesn't want to avoid that. However, he doesn't know that catching that ball would result in disappearance, and by the time it should have occurred to him, he was already caught in the moment. Same with the party -- chatting with people is part of the party, but he did not know that going to Table01 and chatting with person A, B and C will result in him taking a few shots (he could be lost in the conversation or peer pressured or w/e).

Originally Posted by Haak

Lol. Well there you go then. Or do you honestly believe that an extra 22 seconds makes that much difference?

Yes. But they were never meant to be a full-blown romantic pairing in the first place. All Hinata did at the end of Ep10 was prove Yui wrong. Yui x Hinata shippers are just exaggerating.

Originally Posted by Haak

Yes it has. It was an important factor. Therefore, it was used in the anime. And you do realise that having a new naive character as the main protagonist was done specifically to do exactly that?

Are you referring to Hinata's close relationship with Yuri, and him being the co-founder of the SSS? I don't think so. Used, referenced -- learn the difference. And I already addressed this in that part you quoted.

Originally Posted by Haak

Depends, but I don’t think that would apply to Yuri. That’s not the point, though. I’m pretty certain that’s quite a different sort of loneliness than what Hinata feared Yuri would be stuck with in chapter 3.
No. Well you can, but I don’t believe it makes your interpretation any more credible than mine. Have you never been in a shipping war?

Of course. Mind the timeline. Remember how relationships evolve? And, ho ho, are you saying that we should not apply human logic to these characters? Then this whole debate is pointless. And I never participate in serious shipping. My interests lie more in speculah.

Originally Posted by Haak

Like I said. It’s nothing that I didn’t already know.

Then why did you say that Hinata didn't know how to disappear? Why did you say that he didn't pick himself up, and that he only stuck to Yuri because he didn't know how to disappear (when he clearly knows otherwise)? Why are you saying that he cared more about his disappearance when he clearly never pursued it after his talk with Ooyama?

Originally Posted by Haak

Only suggests those things, and only those things. Only what you can observe. That’s my point.

How shallow-minded. We don't observe the characters urinating or defecating, so they must not be doing it. We don't observe the characters changing clothes or taking baths, so they must not be doing it. I haven't observed this particular pencil on the moon, so, hypothetically, if I was standing on the moon and I let go of this pencil, I wouldn't know what would happen to it. We didn't observe the formation of our solar system, therefore we shouldn't be able to deduce how it formed. We don't observe intelligent radio transmissions, so we must be the only advanced civilization in our galaxy. We don't observe methane-based (instead of water-based) life forms, so they must not exist. We don't observe extraterrestrial life, so Earth must be the only planet in the whole universe that supports life. We can't directly observe black holes and dark matter, so they must not be able to exist. We can't observe anything past around 13 billion light years, so nothing must exist past that distance.

Originally Posted by Haak

If I believe that Hinata cared more about inner peace at that time rather than taking care of Yuri then I’m going to believe their relationship did not evolve to such a degree. If you believe that it wasn’t Hinata’s ‘true self’ and he really does care more about Yuri then you’re obviously going to believe it did evolve to such a degree. But you can’t then use that as a premise to prove that it’s wasn’t Himata’s true self’ at that time. That’s circular.

Believe what you want then. But let me just tell you that you're wrong. There is no evolution needed. It's right there in that short excerpt from chapter 3. Stop ignoring evidence. And it's not even an argument, just a definition of terms: X is his true self. He acted like Y, which is not the same as and is in direct opposition to X. By definition, Y couldn't be his true self since Y =/= X.