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Originally Posted by Renall
It's actually the ep6 Battler/Beatrice red that's odd, as it's basically spoken out of context. It can't apply to the current game, because five people (at least) are dead. So the number isn't 17 + 5 or we'd have Person X all over again. It must be intended to mean some sort of absolute that is independent of the previously stated "no more than" count in which dead people aren't counted. Perhaps implied is the "on the game board in general," but I can't be sure.
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Actually, I thought the person limit was specifying the number of people at the start of the game. Because as you say, they die and aren't really counted as 'existing' any more. Also, didn't Battler try something like this earlier? Saying someone died or left the island which allowed for someone else to come on... and he got shut down hard. 8)
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Originally Posted by Judoh
Does the red really have to be true across the board for author theory to work? Or is that just your personal preference?
As long as none of the chiru arcs are Rokkenjima prime it should be fine.
I fail to see why spinoff stories wouldn't work with it. If there is only one real Rokkenjima in author theory than the rest should be spinoffs anyway. And that's basically what Umineko is a bunch of spinoff stories.
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I'm saying the reds that are true for all games will be reaching into the Core Truth. In the author theory, I'm trying to separate the idea of red and the things that have to be true for the story to be 'Umineko.'
Anyways, we know not all reds are true across the games. For example "Eva is dead." But there must be a Core Truth that is true for all games because if not, then say... The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes is also an Umineko story. 8)
You get what I mean, right? There must be a set of things that are true for the writers, even the original writer, to write from. And this allows EP1-4 to be solvable as a whole. If this is not true then any of them must be solveable independently but not for the whole, but I'm not sure this is likely. Any new writer, in the world of Hachijou and the Witch-Hunt rabid-fangroup, who didn't know of this core truth would write an inaccurate story that would eventually become obvious. For the time being, at least to only the writer(s) who know the 'truth.' If you can take them for their word.
For example, what if the murders in EP1-3 were NOT caused by Battler's sin?
Anyways, my idea was that the 17 person limit (and now the 16 person count at the end of EP6) is a red that applies across all games because it is a Core Truth. In other words, the writers who must know the truth must know that only 16 people were on the island that day (And I bet they know exactly which 16.) Then they're free to introduce a 17th Person X for whatever purpose... although of course they can't take part in the murders because of Knox rules.
You may not believe this one applies, but there are going to be reds which we thought didn't apply but actually do. When I get home... (as I'm pretending to work right now
), I'll go through the reds again...
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Originally Posted by Renall
The author has the discretion to use red truth (unless you're going so far as to say the red actually doesn't exist in the texts of writers and is applied by another, meta-writer). That red truth may be wrong; if it is wrong, the episode is a "forgery." Yet the red text may not apply to Rokkenjima Prime at all in the Author Theory world.
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Now that's an interesting idea. At the moment I'm of the opinion that EP1-6 all 'conform' but the statement Ronove made that Lambda's game 'lacks love' disturbs me. At one time, I even thought that meant EP5 was unsolvable. And we do seem to see dirty tricks like the idea of the knocking and the letters. Maybe... EP5 and/or 6 are illegitimate stories? The proof of that would be in breaking things from EP1-4. I think I'd need to see more than just our doubts about one line of red...
But it is an interesting idea. Hachijou maybe only authored EP5-6 and so even though she brags about knowing the truth her stories are exposed as fake and she is declared a 'hack writer.' 8)
"Yet the red text may not apply to Rokkenjima Prime at all in the Author Theory world."
Yah, the only things we can get from Rokkenjima Prime is the Core Truth. Some would call the Core Truth the 'setting' although you have to know things like Kinzo being dead in all games. What really happened in those two days on Rokkenjima Prime is of no concern to our particular mystery, because Rokkenjima Prime has no guarantees of solvability; it's reality. However, our mystery is of concern to Rokkenjima Prime because solving it exposes the Core Truth that someone wanted us to know.