[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Yeah that's why I said it wouldn't make sense to focus on us. But what about the more mainstream Japanese audience?

There are shows that are targeted at the mainstream Japanese audience right now. But chances are that either a) you've never heard of them, and/or b) you have no interest in watching them. I mean, heck, how much mainstream Japanese entertainment are you interested in in general? I suspect probably not very much. More mainstream anime productions may theoretically result in anime expanding out of the niche you perceive, but that doesn't by any means guarantee they will make more shows that will interest you (or will show that much more creativity in the process).

Anime has been around in Japan for many decades now. I don't think they're all of a sudden going to discover that there's this giant hidden market for mature, serious, creative anime that has been totally unexploited so far and is just begging to throw them money if only the price was more reasonable. You have to have some faith that the thousands of producers, market researchers, publishers, and other companies and staff involved in the entertainment business, often in competition with each other to find the new thing, have already considered and tried countless angles. It's not like they're going to read this thread and say "oh shit, why didn't we ever think of that?!" They're well aware of the realities of their market, and are experimenting all the time in ways large and small to see if they can capitalize on any new trends. You'd like to see them move towards a market that all signs suggest does not even exist.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

My bigger overall point is that if anime continues to be dependent on a small group of people paying for BD's that cost like $500, they're never going to get anywhere. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you obviously. [...] If they are content with the status quo then there is no reason [to change the formula].

To I guess reiterate the point above, the industry is composed generally of companies seeking to maximize their profits, so I think we can safely assume that it's not "contentment" that has brought them here, but necessity. I don't think we can assume that the "mass market" will ever be interested in anime on any sort of significant scale, and it's not a matter of "not trying hard enough".

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Well there are lot of trends we could analyze, but I was earlier trying to get at that I thought the US consumer is much more "pragmatic" than the Japanese customer. In the sense that a US consumer isn't going to throw away a ton of money to purchase anime, there are other ways we can decide to spend our money in a more practical manner.

I don't think the "US consumer" vs. "Japanese consumer" really has much to do with it. Japan has a more visible market of hardcore collectors with a much more organized system of "exploiting" them (particularly when it comes to anime), but the collector mentality is the same around the world. Collectors spend lots of money on things that other people deem worthless or unnecessary. Owning entertainment on physical media is increasingly something only collectors want or need to do, and Japan's market merely recognizes this fact.

That aside, are you really arguing that Americans consumers on the whole are more "discerning" than Japanese consumers on the whole? On what do you base this claim other than the price of anime?

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The huge licensing fees that were being charged were a main problem because it basically ensured the demise of oversea markets. Even at the prices back then, anime was too expensive for your typical US consumer. There was no way to make up the huge cost sink of bringing the anime over here.

I still think your point still doesn't follow. Just how cheap does anime have to be before "your typical US consumer" considers it worth buying? And, at those prices, is it even possible to make a profit when you consider that this is one of your key and only revenue sources? And if anime was selling more volume and making more money when the prices were higher, how does this prove it being "too expensive for your typical US consumer" was ever the real problem? Licensing fees didn't start that high; they only rose because the market was doing so well and showed signs of rapid growth. The collapse wasn't because prices were high, but because the industry collapsed under the weight of its over-inflated valuation (just like the .com bubble) and couldn't handle the massive returns and bankruptcy of a major distributor (among other things).


In the end, as I said above, I think there's just a limit to anime's potential reach. There are already so many other forms of entertainment out there competing for people's time and resources, and anime is just one of many. Getting people to care for this foreign media will always be a challenge, just like it's hard to get people to care for foreign film even though some of it is really amazing and arguably better than popular domestic fare.