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Old 2013-02-11, 12:38   Link #138
james0246
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Amusingly enough that's not what I was disagreeing with your first assessment, I don't believe the author meant us to think Tobirama is a fundamentally bad person (no matter how cold and callous he is which make him whatever you want to call him) or he wouldn't have made him sacrifice his life to save his subordinates (including an Uchiha).
I think you are overstating the sacrifice. You can still be a "bad person" but sacrifice yourself for family and friends (and country). Nagato is a bad person, but he still sacrificed himself in the end for what he believed to be a higher cause. Itachi is a bad person, but he still sacrificed himself for his brother. If you commit extreme acts of cruelty (edit: or just extreme acts in general) you are generally a bad person, and Tobirama committed such acts (even if he felt it was due to the fact that the Uchiha are biologically driven to insanity whenever they get any power).

Tobirama sacrificed himself for the simple reason that it was more practical for his team to survive and lead Konoha than it was for him to survive but the future generation die. He didn't sacrifice himself out of the kindness of his heart, nor do I think he was being altruistic in any respect. He sacrificed himself because logically he was the only one there that could do what needed to be done while also helping his village. (Shikimaru did something similar during the Sound/Sand invasion.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
So the part I think you were wrong is more concerning the fact that the Uchiha were a lost cause. Hashirama proved it wasn't the case and Tobirama worst sin was to give up on this ideal which as Naruto painfully repeats all the time is really something you shouldn't do.
As for the Uchiha being a lost cause. Well, they definitely seem to be cursed (if Tobirama's assessment is correct). Any power immediately goes to their head (due to the extreme emotions needed to access such power (there's also the whole curse of hatred thing derived from the Sage choosing the younger son over the elder)), and the continued increase in power drives them mad (Itachi, Obito, Madara, Sasuke, all are arguably less than sane to down right insane, the only Uchiha with extreme power that seems to have had any sanity seems to be Shisui, and he killed himself (presumably)). If Tobirama is correct in his assessment, then they were always going to be a ticking time bomb, he simply, and stupidly, helped speed up their destruction.

Honestly, I do not know if Hashirama appealed to their humanity or he simply made them complacent, whatever the case it is hard to see how simply treating the Uchiha with kindness helped to stave off the monster that presumably lives inside of them. Hopefully Hashirama will be able to discuss this problem next chapter and give us some further insight into why he felt the Uchiha could be saved (whereas Tobirama felt they were doomed since birth).

Last edited by james0246; 2013-02-11 at 12:48.
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