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Old 2012-01-06, 19:11   Link #524
White Silver King
The Isley
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
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I totally agree. you dont seem to understand that you are contradicting yourself. if hashirama was capable of so much more (which we both seem to believe he is) then why not use it to beat sarutobi? simple answer: orochimaru wasnt fully adept at using him.
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right, but he did die. each generation is mostly superior to the last one, which is a common theme in naruto. jutsu now arent anymore superpowers than what sarutobi displayed. they are just more advanced and more powerful. its all magic on a very general way of looking at since no humans can do any of this stuff. the discussion is about who is the best in their primes. when all is said and done it will be naruto and sasuke almost certainly.
You're not listening to what me and some of the others are saying. Orochimaru used him to the full extent that Kishi has written for Hashirama at the time. Naruto is going through one of those DBZ phases Shonen's often progress too - in order to make bigger threats and bigger wins for the protagonist the powers of characters grow absurdly to the point that they barely make sense anymore. Had Kishi decided to keep Hiruzen alive, he too would have some of these ridiculous abilities as well instead of almost purely elemental ninjutsu that made up the vast majority of techniques back in that day. Back then a amazing Kekkei Genkai was Haku's ice element - it was simple and sensical (water + wind = ice) but because others were incapable of doing so it was really cool for us to see. But now we need things like turning your body into water and combining three elements to make up a new element that pretty much makes nuclear explosions - that makes no sense but it's cool for us to see, no one would be impressed by a simple ice jutsu now. This is what we're trying to say. Had the Orochimaru v Hiruzen fight taken place in Part II with what we know of Tobirama and Hashirama Hiruzen, I still would have ended the same way - with Orochimaru's arms dead, Hashirama and Tobirama defeated/sealed and Hiruzen dead because that is what Kishi wanted to write and the way it came out so of course his powers would have been heightened to an extent that it would be feasible for him to do so.

Another example would be if the Pain v Naruto fight had occurred in Part I. Obviously, he wouldn't have wiped out Konoha and killed everyone because the manga would be over - Kishi would have written him to be either 1) MUCH weaker 2) MUCH more limited in what he could do or 3) both. The plot and what occurs in it can only stretch logic so far before we have to chaulk it up to the fact that this is a story written by a human being who's bound to not have planned every single detail of his story 10+ years into the future or changed his mind in that decade of time between the points in the story.

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I think you need to reread the title of this thread... also, we cant just assume people would be stronger if they lasted longer. look at K11. they dont have 'superpowers' now that the manga is more flashy
Gai (I know he's not a K11 but he and Lee are like the same person :P) can turn into Superman on fire, Shikamaru can now actually pull his shadow off the ground and use it as a weapon directly, Hinata can make chakra demons on her hands, Ino's clan are basically Asian Professor X's. And that's just K11 - Pain can freakin rip people's souls out of their bodies with his hand! There's a Cyborg path who's head is a missle! None of these things were capable in the manga 13 years ago because, yes the characters were weaker (but that doesn't explain why their superiors couldn't do the techniques. Shikaku didn't materialze his shadow in 3D during the invasion of Konoha, Hinata's dad didn't make chakra demons on his hands, Ino's dad didn't use telepathy, etc) but moreso because they weren't feasible in the manga because 1) Kishi hadn't thought of them yet and 2) That was completely off the charts back then - things like that just didn't exist in the manga or in Kishi's head or else he would have put them in there.
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Last edited by White Silver King; 2012-01-06 at 19:24.
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