[Asleep]

Originally Posted by Var

Just because we do not know some thing's meaning does not make it pointless. As I said, all four of those people exist on both sides of Lelouch and are, in fact, the only four left who are not Suzaku or C.C.. It could very be alluding to that fact.

I can say the same thing. For all we know Kallen might leave Lelouch. You can't know what's it implies until we finish the season. Like with S1 we can look back on it's OP and see what meaning each scene had. I can't read the artist's mind - it might or might not have meant something.

Originally Posted by Var

Yes, yes it was written in stone. Or as close to it as it could. As I said, no one else was even remotely shown as having worried about Lelouch. Rolo was also shown to be trying to break Lelouch so there we really only two possibilities (especially when we saw that C.C. didn't even give a damn). Either Lelouch would break under Rolo's torment, or Kallen would carry through with why she called him in the first place.

I know I started the 'anything is possible because Kallen stopped him debate' you do not need to inform me about my own arguments. And so far, I have kept that point quite alive. My saying that not everything is possible prior to the event is in no way contradictory to my original claim.

Do not even say that anything is possible anywhere. This is not a blank slate, only on an empty plane of no preordained events is 'anything possible anywhere'. In a story only a few events are ever possible because of how the story was built up. For instance, since you seemed to have missed this point, the show made it quite clear that Lelouch needed to be saved from Rolo and from his loss of Nunally. The only person shown to care about the situation or even understand it was Kallen. As such, if no one had shown up, meaning Kallen had not shown up, the number of possibilities is limited to one and only one baring some supernatural nonsense. That possibility is Rolo breaking Lelouch. Once Kallen intervenes all bets are off because Rolo's original plan is thwarted and Lelouch is no longer completely out of his mind.

Sure enough, Lelouch could be saved later in a myriad of ways, he could also be further condemned and the story could have ended. Given the situation and Rolo's existence, the latter would be far more likely. Once Rolo breaks Lelouch, he'll not let anyone have him. We know this as fact, that he is greedy of Lelouch, there is no other reason for him to have killed Shirley. So while anything is certainly possible, some events are far more probable than others, so much so that the improbable should hardly even be humored.


The amount by how much I am raising Kallen's role in the events is minuscule, but I am still putting it as a more important part of the overall whole. I am not saying it is some ultimate event, I am simply saying that it is marginally more important. On the grand scheme of things it hardly matters. This is completely bypassing the fact that I am looking at it from character contribution, in which case Kallen is the person who contributed most. Whereas the fireworks scene was many people.

If you are curious as to why I do such a thing, it is because one happened out of coincidence, while the other occurred because of a single person's own actions.



Again, I've never said he was snapped out of his depression. I said he was simply pulled from the deep end by Kallen. And yes, Rolo did not give Lelouch the drug, but he most certainly forced him into the corner where only the drug was left. Or do I have to again bring up the train? Rolo's plan is as clear as day, he wanted to break Lelouch, how can you even be arguing that?

The only people to knew about his loss were Rolo, C.C. and Kallen. C.C. was too busy pretending not to care. Rolo saw it as a good opportunity to keep him to himself. Kallen went after him. It doesn't make her the only person to care though. C.C. didn't go after him for other reasons. Different people deal with things differently. She expected him to come back on his own. Kallen went after him. She happened to find him there taking refrain. Neither of them knew about his miserable condition at the time. Kallen originally goes to talk to him. If you call the fireworks scene a coincidence, this was just as much of a coincidence. Even more so, because she was lucky to find him in time, and lucky he was where she had gone.



What plan did Rolo have? He didn't even come until Kallen left. So how could Kallen stop his plan. Any plan he had he put into motion after she left. It was nice of her to come but it doesn't show she cared more than C.C. They are both different people. C.C. spends half her life trying to hide her emotions. She cared enough to smile (she was quick enough to stop smiling, when she saw Kaguya watching). C.C. puts up a cold front. She thought Lelouch would come back on his own. It happened not to work in her favour.


If his friends had left for the trip it would have been over. Any other thing couldn't have happened to send him back in time. I don't see how anything else could have saved him. They didn't stay there because it was raining or something ruined their plans. They stayed there for Lelouch. It was no coincidence. That is what touched him. That they cared about the people more than the place.

Originally Posted by Var

I was referring to your overly emphasized line of the white snow. The cave scene in its entirety is a different matter entirely and not one of which I have been speaking about in relation to Kallen.



No, it forms the illusion of one. You cannot have a love triangle when the only love evident at that time was from Kallen to Zero. There was no evident love between Lelouch and C.C., nor between Lelouch and Kallen. There simply was no love triangle that existed without the perversion of events by personal bias.

The white snow line was quite significant. C.C. had (in the previous ep) talked about "snow being white because it forgot it's colour" (or some thing to that effect). Lelouch remembered it and brought it up. They are trying to form a triangle. It was also evident in R2 when C.C. interrupted Kallen and Lelou (when she fell on too of him). I think the "Tabasco line" was jealousy while you could think otherwise.

There is no point in arguing anymore on this. I'll leave this to point of view now.

Originally Posted by Var

I'd gander, from the most recent episode, that her selfishness towards whatever her wish is, made her cold. She is all alone because she chose to be. She chose to leave Mao, and she chose to leave the Cult. She said it herself.



If she tells them that she's sorry for abandoning them... then more likely than not, she left of her own volition. Or do you think that Clovis stormed the Geass cult to capture her?



Where have I even mentioned Lelouch's affection towards Kallen? I simply said that there are romantic developments occurring. Kallen's attempt to learn about Lelouch through his sister is about as obvious as it can get.

You can't tell if her wish is selfish until you know what the wish is. It might be as big as saving the world or something. More than choice it was lack of choice. She is putting the wish above everything. What makes it so important that he chooses to be unhappy in return?

She said she was sorry for neglecting them. It doesn't prove she left the cult. I doubt she handed her leadership happily to V.V.