[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

@Anh_Minh: I can understand why your fear of change is driving you to ignore any form of constructive criticism, but that does not mean that you are right... you want to believe that patents and copyright are the only tools humans have to evolve their civilization...

I'd be more open to talking of alternatives if you actually gave alternatives, instead of merely claiming they exist. (except, yes, in software.)

Here, concrete example: explain to me how they're going to make money off inventing new drugs.

I don't think so for the reasons I mentioned, if you or anyone else needs a clarification, well ask, don't discard half-way through trying to think how to invalidate them before even thinking about them

I made it clear I don't see anything in what you said that's an actual counterargument to the points I made. That counts as asking for clarification. I ain't gonna beg.

Originally Posted by Malkuth

I refrained from mentioning it, but you guys are aware that patents are not awarded to innovations that do what they claim to... there are time-traveling devices, free-energy ones, and a lot more... that's another reason "investors" are so eager to support such a mechanism to lock in secrecy their own research with some cheap fantasy from a lunatic, instead of honest productive work

So? Some lunatics pay good money to patent stuff that doesn't work, thus gaining the ability to forbid other people to use stuff that doesn't work. I don't see a problem, here.

Originally Posted by Random32

Why isn't more cultural products better than the long term financial interests of one hit wonders?

Your not being able to sell a remake of Justin Bieber's last song doesn't hinder cultural advancement in any way. Just make up your own crap if you're that interested in "advancing culture".

If copyrights take forever to run out, a lazy ass can make one really good cultural product and keep reaping the rewards for the rest of their lives. They can also block out people who try to make derivatives of the cultural product indefinitely (I personally think that they shouldn't be able to block derivative works at all, but very short time limits would be acceptable as well).

Most derivatives are covered by fair use, and thus not blocked. Not so for straight up plagiarism, but again, I don't see a problem.

Long copyright is very very bad for creating more cultural products as it puts more restriction on what new cultural products can be created, and does not push for the creation of more cultural products since a cultural product can be milked indefinitely.

It means people have to come up with their own crap instead of selling their fanfiction. (And even that's not true, have you seen the nameswaps of Harry Potter that got sold?) I don't see how that restricts creation.

Short copyright is okay for encouraging creation for now, since some cultural products take a lot of investment that needs to be gotten back somehow, but that is changing as well.

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As for my stance on copyright. Kill it. A few nukes from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. Additional copies are practically free to make, thus everyone who wants one should get their own copy.

Yes, the first copy costs thousands to millions to make. The others basically nothing. So all you need is one sucker to pay millions so you can get your stuff for free? And you see nothing wrong with that?

Besides, if all you want is access to a product (rather than selling your own version), get your ass to a library or something.

Or heck, just steal it. You want something but don't want to pay for it. Stop making excuses and just try not to get caught.

For financing of high cost stuff like big budget movies or games, I suggest a kickstarter-ish system. Patrons who can afford it pay creators to make cultural goods to give out to everyone free of charge.

And how much money do you think can be raised that way? Even without the psychological obstacles of paying something through the nose just so a bunch of entitled kids can get it for free?

Of course that isn't happening easily. People too invested in the current system are busily resisting change.

Or maybe it's just a stupid idea. Ever considered that?

Short copyright? That could work. (For "short" being a few years... Long enough for 99% of the works to be safely forgotten.) Though I'm not sure how authors are going to take seeing slash fictions of their characters being sold right along their own work as if they were just as legitimate and genuine. I guess it'll depend.

No copyright: as with patents, someone will have to find some alternative way to make people invest money, or all we'll be left with will be advertisements.