[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

To me, I don't really see why she's any less heroic against Reinforce then she is.

I didn't say she was less heroic.... if I could pin it down, it would be more along the lines of comparing two individuals. One talks big, but gets their ass handed to them most of the time; in other words, they can't back it up. And the other one does say cool lines occasionally, but most definitely *can* back it up with some awesome things that you don't expect they can do. One shows why they are a hero, while the other just talks the game. To me, it feels they are turning Nanoha into the former. She can talk, but she can't back it up.

Thus, to restate the main point: Series Nanoha is the girl who can. Movie Nanoha is the girl who can't. Movie Nanoha is not series Nanoha; completely different continuity. The Nanoha/Arisa/Suzuka 1st grade fight didn't happen there. Remember how the movie 1st manga turned our heroine into Emoha?

I'm also curious on when Fate started to annoy you. Ms. spotlight stealer, after all, was probably worfed even worse than Nanoha was. For that would be Reinforce and Hayate, and the focus on them was dedicated nearly half the movie to their closure. So, I'd say this move compliments their side a bit better. And for this, I would have to say that one has to watch the tv series before this to make things really work.

I'll get to Fate below, but the bolded line is I think the problem I have been having. Especially for a reboot, there shouldn't be a requirement to watch the series before. A reboot movie should be able to stand on its own(unless they are deliberately drawing from the previous continuity ala Star Trek reboot). Even before the movies, I was a little annoyed as I watched, that a lot of information was in manga, booklets, and sound stages, that helped explain things in the series. So now, you have to watch the series to properly understand the movies, but you have to listen to sound stages, and read the manga and booklets and who knows what else, to properly understand things.

The other thing is that I also thought the Wolkies were far more aggressive, and already positioned to attack in the movie. But you know, I suppose ancient tools of war should and will run circles over a few talented nine year olds.

One of the failings is the lack of backstory into the knights. Use to be real people? Or just based on real people? Or completely artificial? We'd need their backstory to understand how they would match up. If they used to be real people, or were based on real people, then it makes sense that talented and powerful 9-year-olds could match them. At least in the series, their memories were fragmented and mostly lost, so even if they had power, I didn't see them as ancient all-powerful killing machines. They were still people with flaws and weak points. At least, that is the only explanation I can come up with, that you have to see them more as people, then as magical killing machines. Because otherwise, giving a guardian knight system emotions doesn't make too much sense, when their only purpose is to attack and gather pages.

Originally Posted by Demi.

This is the most honest thing I've heard you say. Claiming you still liked Fate when you never had anything good to say about her, really was getting old.

Also if I had to take a stab, it was right around the time you grew to like Nanoha more, and started to wonder why she doesn't have a larger percentage of the screen time. And this clearly happened before the first movie, because I remember you complaining about Fate even before then.

And it's pretty silly if it was StrikerS since it's the one series Nanoha actually got decent development while Fate just had some fluff. So... I really do wonder when that was.

No, it wasn't during StrikerS. I do remember liking the growing cast as I watched, and was eager to see each contribute. I was upset when Yuuno, Chrono, and Arf were relatively absent from StrikerS, but even there, I was okay with Fate's development. In fact, I would have preferred to see more of her backstory with Jail, since she apparently already knew him. There was a complexity hinted at that could have been explored. I did dislike most of the fluff of StrikerS, usually when it was pointless and just extended the clock. I actually didn't mind "Fate-mama" too much, even though I thought it was a bit unnecessary.

But the huge cast was something that very much drew me in, and inspired me to write Crisis; I wanted to give every character something. I gave Fate quite a bit of focus there, and later in Future Tense as well. Her close relationship with Nanoha is something I did like, and thus made a special point to address, mostly in a chapter that everyone seemed to really like (only to later watch someone get banned from nanofate for posting the story there).

I think, honestly, it was sometime after that, as I slowly learned that Sette's role was diminished because of Nana, and that there was a huge Fate fanbase(that hated Yuuno with a passion), and a fandom "war" which still really didn't get to me because I wasn't here then. But then I heard of people being mistreated by Fate fans, including friends of mine (and later myself), and then the movie 1st came out, which I was excited for... only to see important secondary characters like Arisa and Suzuka diminished, when they played an important role in Nanoha's past. And I guess it all clicked in my head that Tsuzuki was playing to his Fate fanbase, and thus diminished other characters to make her role more grandiose.

Perhaps, until the movie, I could still deny things as "oh, just the standard fandom antics" and not pay it much heed... until it impacted the story. I watched the rich and varied characters that I loved get further pushed into the background; a well-balanced meal was reduced to popcorn and cotton candy. Sure, they may be tasty, but beware what you ask for. A balanced meal is healthier.

Note that if it was Fate being pushed into the background and another character (other than Nanoha) outshining her, I'd probably become annoyed at that character, too. Fate adds to the rich tapestry that Tsuzuki has created, but so has everyone else. And now it has really begun to affect the title character herself.

And my blame really falls on Tsuzuki, since he is the one making the creative decisions (at least, I believe he is). I understand he wants to make money, but fanatics will buy anything; however you need all your fans to remain viable. If the Chrono and Hayate fans feel their characters are done, they'll wander off. And then the Wolkie fans will go, and so on. We really do need each other.

Anyway, I've probably rambled enough, trying to explore my growing dissatisfaction, heh.