[monster]

Originally Posted by Haak

I'm guessing that's something in a side story. But still, the impression i got when I watched SEED was the opposite.

It's in a side story, but it's also in the anime. That's how Orb got the technology to build mobile suits.

My point is that they need a justification before the damn treaty.

My point is that Junius 7 is a valid justification IF they wanted to claim they're still trying to keep Orb's ideals. HOWEVER, they could also choose to say that they're abandoning those ideals because it is not working for Orb in the current global situation. Either way, they have a justification for joining the Alliance. I'm sorry if this caused any confusion.

Non-aggression because of neutrality.

Neutrality is about not interfering in the conflicts of other nations. Non-aggression, in this context, is about not attacking other nations for one's own purpose, such as colonization or imperialism. They're two different things.

And if someone is to blame that means something was done wrong. The story made an obvious point about how what they did was done behind closed doors and how they knew what they were doing went against their ideals. It was definitely portrayed as something along the lines of the US Government secretly infringing its own constitution, not something they discussed out in the open.

I never said these ideals are not important. There are many things that governments do that are important, things that are done in secret, and even things that could affect the head of the government if known to the public. That doesn't mean they're all on the same level as the US government infringing the US Constitution.

So please explain to me how the fact that he failed to uphold those ideals proves that those ideals were not integral after all. Because that was your original point.

That the fact that he failed to uphold these ideals ultimately did not matter. It did not change Orb fundamentally as a country.

I thought Destiny did well to demonstrate this when those terrorists caused the Julius Seven incident so maybe this is an example of the Chairman's darker side but now it's starting to look like that Julius Seven incident was rigged and I certainly hope not.

It's Junius, not Julius.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Yeah, i know. But seeing how the people they alliance with kind of want to exterminate half their country's population, it seems like they should show something about coordinators in ORB's nation being treated badly, unless nothing happened to them, that would make the show worse than it already is, lol

You have to understand that, while the Seirans and probably many in the higher ups of EA do not care for Coordinators, not all of them are extremists like Blue Cosmos that actually want all Coordinators dead. There was that conversation between Azrael and the EA leaders in SEED about this.

The object of the Alliance, right now, is about fighting the PLANTs. And since Orb maintained its independence, the status quo for the people living in Orb remains.