[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Because Nanoha was told to imagine a weapon?

I don't see why, as long as you keep your oponent within your line of sight, you can target them and manouver at the same time. Your shots respond to your mental commands, which is hardly comparable to our MCLOS. You simply have to think where you want the round to go and it goes there, so in a dogfight, I would rather prefer these rounds, as they constantly chase my oponent, forcing him to either keep dodging or start blocking which keeps him from attacking. You can manouver and keep him pinned without losing accuracy, with a rifle, you have to stop moving in order to profit from your sights.

Like I said, guided shots work just as fine and you can actually correct them when you shoot, giving you a higher chance to hit, so no the gun doesn't get points in accuracy.

See Nanoha in Ep5. She's about the best there is in that art, but she's most CERTAINLY not "targetting and maneuvering" at the same time. It is highly unlikely the random mage will be even HALF as good.

MCLOS means you are flying the rounds, which seems to be the mode of employment. That you are using your mind to fly them does not make it cease to be MCLOS.

Finally, guided bombs are used in close range, much closer than 100m. Which suggests they have short effective ranges (homing limitation, limitation of command link range?) So I won't be holding out for them in long-range shoots (even 100m).

Ah, here we start roaming in my area of expertise. No, a bayonet to a rifle does not a good melee weapon make. Sure, its a decent idea for unarmed oponents or other people with bayonet rifles, maybe even short weapons like daggers, but a rifle is not a melee weapon. The very things that make it oh-so-great at range (sights and stocks) make it a very clumsy and unwieldy weapon in melee. Someone with a staff has a much better chance of winning.

Shouldn't you be able to use the stock as a club? And even if I agree with that, someone with a staff is still at a substantial disadvantage versus one with say a pike or a sword. I still say you might as well play to strengths.

While we have been shown that weapons can recover from heavy damage, this skill has never been used while in combat, despite the many times it could have been. This highly suggests some time and effort is involved in recovering, which means there would be no 'quick' recovery.

IIRC Fate made Bardiche recover in seconds once she got to it.

I'm sorry, but I concider hitting someone that has become a little dot in the distance, gun or no, a long range shot with deadly accuracy.

It is NOT a little dot, she was a blob. The range is such that Nanoha was 5 pixels wide - the range was ~100m. See the stadia pictures again. Now, if Nanoha was a 1 pixel dot, the range would be in the 500m area. In that case, I will probably buy that some kind of stabilization took place, since even with a stock and all that would have been a fair shot and from the hip a stabilizer will be necessary - unless I start moving Nanoha from talented to out of reality, which is not exactly a great solution IMO. Unfortunately, she is 5 pixels wide.

Did I do that? I merely said that recoil did not seem to be an issue, which is a fact.

What about the movement of your own arms and so on.

Yes, you could, and you'd still have a pretty crappy melee weapon. The lack of blade is not an issue, the fact that you have absolutely no way to wield it even remotely comfortable much less effectively is. Why do you think Cross Mirage's grip slides back?

If you care so much about ergonomics in a melee, why do you care so little about it at range?

Yee, I dunno, maybe because this was a gun/staff comparison? Anyway, I can compare every single device we've seen so far, but I can already tell you Bardiche comes out on top, clearly. It functions similar to a staff and is an axe ready to be used in melee without any mode-shifting.

There you go. Even by the results of your analysis, the staff is not an optimum weapon. And if you place more emphasis on range and stop trying to paper over the ergonomics needed for long-range work, you'll revert to the rifle.

Playing back entirely original and on-the-spot improvised manouvres? You can't possibly be serious!

So what you are saying is that it is the AI that does the work? Because, you know, that's what I've been saying all along.

Consider it this way. Had what happened been orchestrated by a human pushing preset buttons on a console, will you conclude from that performance that the human can help him aim?

Further, the movements that were involved were broad. It is very ill-suited for fine adjustment of aim.

So things are solid because of forcefields, but forcefields aren't neccisarely solid, and since devices are solid... Aaagh! This is completely confusing me.

I'll make it very simple for you then. Pseudomatter is a better solution than real matter, because real matter will have involved the handling of multiple megatons of energy with each "transaction", which even the aces show little sign of wielding.

She disapeared in sparkles, there was no wormhole, she was converted to energy, vitals could still be read because her existence was still there inside the Yami no Sho.

If she was "converted to energy", her existence will not be "inside the Yami no Sho". She will cease to exist. There won't be any "vitals" to take. There won't be sparkles. There will be an enormous nuclear level blast.

A fair share of ranged spells she often uses, mind you. She is far more ranged oriented then Vita, for example.

But it is still a secondary function.

I was talking about Teana, actually.

In that capture, Teana was being airlifted by Nanoha.

When? Where? Last I recall it took a lot more, being labeled as an 'A rank skill'

One has to balance it with how easily Nanoha got it. It is probably a power issue more than anything else.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

The point Keroko is trying to make, I believe, is that it is possible to aim from the hip, as it were, with the Device, and the device handles the targeting.

Targeting is obviously manual. See Ep5, A's

Hell, in a combat aircraft, all the pilot does is designate the targets. It's the computers that give the guidance data...

That's a combat aircraft. RH asks Nanoha to control the bombs.

I admit that Sparrow made the launching aircraft a sitting duck. On the other hand, to follow the Hellfire example (since it IS LOAL-capable), once the correction signals are sent it's off an away.

Unfortunately, Nanoha's bombs seem to be more the guide to impact type.

Define. Full names. I only used LOAL and SARH after spelling them out in full.

Manual Command Line to Sight: Basically, Nanoha operates a mental joystick to command her Shooters to hit the target. Based on Ep5, this seems to be the most likely primary mode.
Semi-Automated Command Line to Sight: Nanoha glares at target (if eyes closed, envisions target), Shooters hit based on commands from RH until end of flight. If this mode is common, Vita will not say that it is impossible for her to guide all the Shooters, and RH will not credit her master - RH will be flying the bombs. Thus it is reasonable to assume that the majority of guided shots are not SACLOS.
Automatic Command Line to Sight / Command Guidance: Nanoha designates target and fires. She's free to look away. RH flies all the Shooters. (If RH can do this, she won't be asking Nanoha for "Control, please") It also has the objection listed for SACLOS.

For extra fun:
Semi-Active Homing: Either Nanoha glares at target, or tells RH to illuminate. No guidance signals are sent. Bombs flock like moths to a fire. This AFAIK has never happened.
Active / Passive Homing: We won't be able to differentiate these two. Fire and fully independent. Bloody Dagger is supposed to be like this, but is considered vulnerable to decoys.

According to the novel, Divine Shooter is supposed to be MCLOS or Homing, with MCLOS being the favored mode of employment.