[monster]

Originally Posted by Haak

But it doesn't show that those ideals are not integral to Orb which was the original point.

It does show when they can conveniently violate it at whim when it suits them.

That's basically fanwanking at this point though. It wasn't even something that came up and I doubt it's something the writers even considered.

How so? Orb joined the Alliance, didn't they?

My original point to this is that there is some leeway in their rules as long as the core ideal of neutrality is maintained. In that hypothetical situation then yes I concede there is a small degree of leeway there as well but how that proves there is no leeway at all, I'm not certain on.

My point is that the core ideal of neutrality is not sustainable unless Orb is powerful enough to fend off an invasion on its own. SEED proved it wasn't.

Suspicions are hardly on the level of a direct invasion.

Suspicion makes it easier for the people to accept when the government decides to join the Alliance.

Unless they continue to fight afterwards.

They didn't. Orb was annexed by the AF.

No, that doesn't have to mean they have to be taken absolutely literally without any sense. The show also made clear that the core dieal was to maintain neutrality at any cost.

It's also about maintaining sovereignty, which is the point of the second claim.

I thought he decided to resign?

Who resigned?

And way, I think it's clear from the episode that he was maintaining his ideals

That's debatable. Certainly not all people may think so. At any case, even if he did, like I said, that doesn't mean everybody would feel the same way about these ideals, especially after it has failed their country.

Episode 40
"We won't let Orb fall into their hands!" - Cagalli's father seconds before he blows himself up

But it did.

The story doesn't even remotely portray Orb's abandonment of it's ideals in Seed Destiny as an okay thing. All those who argue the position are protrayed as as corrupt misogynist cowards with no sense.

That's the true for the characters themselves being corrupt, and of course the audience knew about the AF. But the way they joined the Alliance was through legitimate means.