[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by reelyanoob

http://celestialkitsune.wordpress.co...er-episode-23/



One close-up of Brera's harmonica, zoom up close and note it *looks* like there's a gem of similar colour as Sheryl's earring, at the very top, and the shape is similar too. This shot is from episode 23, just before the 10min mark

Now that I look at this it's probably just a lighting issue LOL, other times it just looks like metal, but other times still the top bit seems to be missing(off-model??). This is Macross, so it's not *completely* impossible I'm pretty sure I saw a similar effect in earlier episodes (when I didn't even have ep 23+) so who knows. The harmonica was able to have some power over Ranka btw.

Considering that we have seen the same harmonica in full before I still don't know where you got that from.

Originally Posted by reelyanoob

You have zero evidence for Brera being infected by v-type bacteria, whereas there is the video ep 24 5:00+ discusses Grace's use of fold-quartz in her control implants.
Also, Brera's abilities are more in line with Alto + earring than with Ranka / Sheryl.

Just like you have no evidence of either Brera or Alto having fold quartz implants.

Saying so don't make it so. I'll reiterate the point we've been discussung in this line you claim to be able to refute, along with all the evidence and citations.

The same can be said for the entire basis of your whole argument, saying something is doesn't make it true, especially when it was never stated in series.

Now, do you still dispute my "CLAIM 1" or not?

I've been doing it this whole time. And you're mixing arguments and events with no connection to suit yourself.

Episode 23, 14 mins in, Ai-kun's eyes turn red, he captures Ranka and hands her over to Grace. There's no way Ranka caused her own capture by Grace here.

That actually was from the other Vajra, not from Grace. Grace took that time to take control of Ranka, but Grace herself was not responsible for that. Grace doesn't have any control over the Vajra, which is why she needed Ranka and Sheryl. If she never needed girls then she would have just found some way for them all to die tragically without any suspicion being cast on herself. She would have let Sheryl die with her family, she would have found a way to kill Ranka, and Brera he would already be dead.

And that's not quite true about what happened when Ranka woke up. Grace maintained her control over the network, regardless of Ranka being asleep, but when Ranka and Sheryl sang they competed with Grace's control.
Sorry to be picky, but you left that one open

Ranka wasn't really asleep you know, she wasn't so much asleep as she lost control over her power. It was a projection of Ranka so she actually was singing, unconsciously singing which is why once she woke up, Grace lost control of the Vajra. Alto just found out that she was unconsciously singing unaware of the world around her. They showed at the end of episode 24 that Ranka was in fact singing.

The joke was about the earring. The scene i've been discussing in ep 23 has NOTHING to do with the earring, and I haven't tried at any point to link the earring to that scene.

Really because your the one who said that Alto shouldn't return the earring because it is a sign of character development, and it would enable him to hear fold waves. I disagreed and pointed out that Alto had already showed his development two episodes ago, and that the earring belonged to Sheryl and served as a memento for her family. In other words stop trying to change the subject, and stop misquoting me it doesn't help your arguments any.

Does something being Deus-ex-Machina change whether you believed it happened in the story?

Stop putting words into my mouth I never said that I didn't believe that it happened I only called it a Dues ex Machina. And no it doesn't apply to your other arguments because you have no basis for saying it.

Maybe she shared her head with those voices, it's not a big deal.
Ok we'll just say Brera communicated by magic then? Despite the facts
1. Grace's implant and control technology used fold-quartz (ep 24)
2. Grace had plans to stick the control implants in as many human's heads as possible, or kill any human who resisted
3. Brera was a cyborg with implants, and under Graces control, a prime candidate for having a control implant
4. Brera able to receive fold waves from both girls in episode 7 (confirmed to be true in ep 15)
5. Brera able to astral communicate with Ranka, same as Ranka/Sheryl in ep 7, and Alto/Ranka/Sheryl in ep 25.
6. Fold-quartz gives instantaneous transmission - perfect for controlling Brera more effectively. Why wouldn't Grace have used the tech on Brera? or for her link with Macross Galaxy for that matter?

1. It was never stated it was
2. That was the plan which she wanted to spread to other colonies hence the need for Sheryl.
3. Again still not proving anything
4. I already stated why that could be a possibility
5. refer to number 4
6. You know Grace isn't far from Brera, plus she planned this for years, I'd imagine there isn't much of any lag when the message isn't being sent very far.

He's built on the same system in episode

They never once said that he was built with fold quartz in the episode.

They said as much when they revealed Grace's tech for controlling people was based on fold-quartz implants in ep 24.

They were talking about the possibility of using fold-quartz implants. Grace also says that its the first time that she actually took control over a human conscience using the network, which doesn't make sense if they took control over the remaining inhabitants of Galaxy. Also part of the reason why Grace needed the Vajra was because of their ability to produce fold crystals.
The scene where Ai-kun turns on Ranka to capture her and gives her to Grace.

Several sources state there's fold-quartz inside the v-type bacteria, and when you consider it, that's got to be true. Otherwise fold-quartz is NOT the only substance that can emit the fold-waves, and loses it's significance. So, Ranka and Sheryl are both using fold-quartz in a way already - it amplifies their singing as fold-waves. it's not hard then, to say Alto with fold-quartz could have a fraction of their power.

What sources are you talking about?
From episode 24, near the start. Plus she monitors fold-waves during the series - you need fold-quartz for that. And she would obviously be using her own zero-time-implant technology, there's more than one Grace (clones) at most times remember?

A few key agents and clones is hardly likely to break the bank. If the stuff was that hard for Grace to acquire, she'd have yanked those earrings out of Sheryl's ears the minute she met her. She is shown to directly control at least one Vajra, and Galaxy / Brera's craft seem to be able to hide from the Vajra pretty well even before Grace got control of the queen. If MacGalaxy can hide near the Vajra main planet without alerting the Vajra to their presence, they can definitely take out a few straggling Vajra for more Fold-Quartz

Grace never controlled the Vajra, and Brera was told to just stay back and observe the fight he says as much in later episodes. They only got to the Vajra planet because of Ranka, once Ranka began to sing Grace used some good old mind rape to take control over Ranka. Again Grace can't control the Vajra which is why she needed Sheryl and Ranka.

Pure cybernetics can't interact with fold-waves without the fold-quartz present. This would dilute any reason to go after the fold-quartz in the series.

They never said that cybernetics can't interact with fold-waves. So long as it has a human conscious you can be used.

How does it work in Grace's implant set-up then ? this was supposed to give human-human direct contact using fold-quartz (creating an 'overmind' like the Vajra)

Simple she's not emitting fold waves just using a cybernetwork. Which works when you consider the fact that she's been planning this for at least 10 years, so she'd have time to create something similar to the design but still need Vajra for supplies. It was a plan that still in the planning stages if she went farther then that they would have been in trouble.