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Originally Posted by karice67
Agreed. The conflict between Makishima's and Akane's world views really boils down to the question of whether change can be achieved within the system or not. There have been far too many series where the conclusion is that it cannot (Code Geass and No. 6 being two that spring to my mind), so it's somewhat refreshing to have seen one where that path that normally occurs in real life is chosen.
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So in real life, the normal response to a harsh dictatorship is changing the system from within? From what I've seen in the world since the 1950s or so is that the normal response to a harsh dictatorship is the eventual toppling of the dictatorship.
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Good observations. I got a similar idea from those scenes in episode 15 and 16, suggesting that if law and order - i.e. the system - were taken away, then the result would be absolute chaos.
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Law and order can exist without the Sibyl system. I mean, that's obvious. We have law and order in many real world countries today without any Sibyl system.
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Though my main argument against Triple_R's proposals (the idea that Akane could start by saying that they're not going to use the Dominators; or that they could remove the brains systematically) is that, as someone else mentioned, she'd have to have pretty much totalitarian control over the bureau (and Sibyl itself) in order to implement them.
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Someone would have to fill a power vacuum for at least a time if Sibyl was to fall. Here is where I
do have faith in Akane. I think she has a generally good conception of law, order, and justice, and what these all entail, and how best to implement them in society. Frankly, I think she has a
much better grasp of all of that than Sibyl itself does.
Sibyl's core problem is that it views empathy as weakness. No, empathy is strength.
Great strength. Empathy better enables us to understand why most criminals do what they do, and search for ways to effectively rehabilitate them.
One of the things that Sibyl is incredibly weak at is effective rehabilitation (as was made clear in the Yayoi flashback episode). This means there's a lot of human resources waste going on in Sibyl Japan because Sybil just doesn't care enough about the lone individual that needs some work, time, and empathy shown to him/her in order for him/her to get to a better place.
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That said, cyth, I must admit that I'm not in favour of your solution either...
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Cyth is showing the dark truth though. The longer Akane works within the system, the more her and her values will become compromised. Akane could corrupt herself and her ideals to the point of no return. She could indeed become the Sheriff of Nottingham.
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I'm not trying to argue that the system isn't bad. But I interpret Akane's decision as one of having the people in the society choose the rules and system of order that they want to follow.
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Sibyl's own secrecy makes that effectively impossible, though.
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As per her admittedly idealistic argument in the final episode, people are always striving for a righteous way of living. And they cannot truly make that choice if someone makes it for them, whether by destroying the system that holds up what they believe to be righteous, by undermining it by cultivating a backlash based primarily on emotion (as revelation that human brains were actually running it would provoke),
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Emotion based on truth has more legitimacy to it than logic based on lies.
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Originally Posted by karice67
Forgot to address this:
I understand what you are saying. But what it suggests is that there is no way for a totalitarian/authoritarian regime to democratise, and the history of our own world shows that this is simply not true. Even the US was arguably not a democracy for a significant part of its history, no matter what we might label it from our vantage point (if there's anyone who doesn't believe me, please have a look at the academic - and political - debate over the "democratic peace").
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When I look up "democratic peace" on Google, all I see coming up from it is the theory that democracies generally do not favor war, at least amongst themselves. If your point is "If America is so democratic, why does it favor war so often?", then I think you raise a defensible point of critique against America. Nonetheless, it doesn't mean that America is actually non-democratic.
I'll admit that a Google search isn't exactly heavy research, but there are limits to what research I'll do for a tangental point on a debate over anime.
So, tl;dr, I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate further on what you wrote here.
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For East Asian examples, Taiwan and South Korea are probably better than Japan, but the latter appears to be becoming more (truly) democratic as well.
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Taiwan and South Korea are in unique positions though, due to the perceived threat posed to them by China and North Korea respectively. But there's no nation threatening Sibyl Japan... If such a nation was, it probably would have conquered Sibyl Japan ages ago.
Well, unless Sibyl Japan is under American protection (a hilariously ironic idea, I have to admit). Which could explain Gino having that "Liverty" coin avatar.
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Sibyl is not totalitarian -
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Sure it is. It's judge, jury, and executioner. It has the power to institutionalize kids the age of five, and
drastically limit the life choices of such kids. It has the ability to jail people indefinitely, for no specific crime. It obviously has no respect for basic human rights.
These are all the marks of totalitarianism. Displayed very vividly at that.
At a bare minimum, Akane really should have negotiated for more humane treatment of latent criminals, imo.