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Old 2006-11-05, 08:48   Link #97
Klashikari
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Originally Posted by Khym Chanur View Post
A question about the syndrome scale: for the vast majority of the villagers who are infected with the parasite but have no symptoms, are they L0 or L1? Also, what does the "L" stand for? And while on the subject of letters, what does the "C" of C103 and the "H" of H170 stand for?
as said earlier : L for level. also, there is no L0 (or the subject is sane). L1 refers as "infected, but no symptoms"
there is no information for the C and H yet. (they are probably generic names)

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But wasn't Satoko at L5, yet still pretty calm?
that's right, but you can compare how keiichi and Rena's paranoia have grown. at some point, keiichi was having huge delusions without getting its personnal terminal stage (that's also the case for rena).


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I can't remember where this is revealed, but I do remember that, according to the research done by Takano's grandfather, some of the villagers who left the Hinamizawa area developed lower level symptoms of the syndrome, yet when they came back, they almost instantly calmed down once they talked to the current queen carrier. Am I remembering this wrong, or is this a part of the theory that the grandfather discarded? If being in the queen carrier's immediate presence, not merely in the Hinamizawa region, suppresses the syndrome, then Rika wouldn't have prevented the damn manager and the construction workers from developing the syndrome, but would have prevented her mother from doing so.
the main flaw of this thing is the fact that there is no huge deal with hinamizawa people at Watanagashi-hen and meakashi-hen, so the queen theory is wrong.
the environment could be a factor, but like i said earlier, there are several people who didn't suffer anything from moving away).
thus, it's possible that the cause is the oyashiro belief (it will punish who would try to betray hinamizawa. running away is considered as a sin), or something external from people life (something random etc)
so, returning to hinamizawa could give them a relief feeling, and would suppress some of the symptoms.

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Oops! According to TIPS #136, Hanyuu was present at Rika's birth, which completely shoots down my convoluted theory. Wait, my theory could still be somewhat salvaged if a new Oyashiro-sama is born with each eighth generation Furude girl, and Hanyuu was born eight generations ago, when the previous Oyashiro-sama died. Hmmmm, I wonder how much I'm missing about Hanyuu since I haven't played the games and only know about Minagoroshi-hen by reading the translated TIPS. So, some questions about Hanyuu that might have been answered in the game:
i will only quote what i can answer ^^;

keep in mind that the following answers might not be accurate/true.
my knowledge is limited to : the anime, manga, the aniesuki translations, the actual minagoroshi translation, and some spoilers scattered around. (i have the game, but since i have no japanese knowledge (patiently waiting for the future patches ), i just took a quick look to matsuribayashi, without spoilering myself too much XD)

for the general information, until it's said in the game, we don't have any clue about hanyuu past. it appears that she witnessed lots of things from the past etc, nothing really accurate.


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  • Can Hanyuu affect the world in any manner except for talking to Rika and turning back time? I get the impression she can't.
  • Is Hanyuu incorporeal (can move through solid objects), or does she have a solid body? (If she has a solid body, but can't affect the world in any way, she's incredibly vulnerable, and I can understand why she'd be so cowardly)
  • Does she need to eat, drink, breath, etc?
  • Does she know about the Great Disaster? Or, another way of putting it, how long after Rika's death does she wait before rewinding time?
  • What is she cowardly about? She doesn't always stick around Rika, because she was at Satoko's house at least once, saying "Sorry" over and over again, and she was at the government/village meeting where the Houjo/Sonozaki split happened. The arguments, shouting and threats and the meeting didn't scare her off; would she have fled if it started getting violent?
  • Are there any hints in the first six games that there might be an invisible entity with which Rika can communicate?
  • Satoko at least once hears Hanyuu saying "Sorry". Was this because she was starting to suffer from heat stroke from the hot-bath punishment? Because she was suffering from the syndrome? Both?
  • She can't, except in Matsuribayashi
  • She doesn't have a body, except in Matsuribayashi
  • no, she doesn't have any body needs.
  • According the Minagoroshi Prologue, Frederica Bernkastel, as Rika, asks to us if we know something that differs between Watanagashi/Meakashi with the rest of the worlds, while saying she is rika, so she can't know anything just before and after her death. We can deduce that either Hanyuu didn't stay long after rika died (according the TIPS #136, she almost always stays close to rika), or she didn't really take the Disaster as a clue.
  • it seems that she is sometimes roaming around, and get really hysteric when she knows that someone else can sense her. She keeps saying "i'm sorry" because she thinks she is the cause of the tragedy / or she couldn't do anything. Her personnality is the main reason why rika didn't use her "ultimate spy" status : she is so pessimist, scared and have a really low self esteem (she keeps saying she is powerless) that rika wouldn't think it would work anyway (though it would be easier if rika sent hanyuu to check what happenned to tomitake and takano) there is however something special said in minagoroshi : when rika presented hanyuu to the reader, she said "only I can see her. or perhaps i should say she lives inside of me".
  • There are some hints i guess, like the TIPS #123. i "assume" that Hanyuu was "officially shown" with Minagoroshi, but again, i'm not sure.
  • One of the symptoms of the hinamizawa syndrom is to be able to hear hanyuu voice and her footsteps. unfortunately, theses facts just make the victiml paranoia worse...
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So in Rika's and Hanyuu's quest to create a happy ending for everyone, they're too late to create a happy ending Satoko, and are reduced to trying to find a least unhappy ending for her instead? That would really suck for Rika. And as a viewer/reader of the series, it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth: I found Satoko's story to be the most pitiable and heart wrenching, yet in the end she has no chance for redemption? Or maybe she can be fixed, but it take years of therapy, years of therapy Satoko won't get if Rika isn't able to create the June 1983 happy ending?
i think there is no particular need to save satoko's parents for a happy end for satoko.
It's true she wouldn't suffer as much, but there wouldn't have any guarantee that she could live peacefully with her parents, whil in Hinamizawa (the dam project and all.)

the past is the part you can't change. granted, the present can be altered to bring a brighter future. so satoko is not really hopeless.
As you could see in the story, satoko is perfectly fine in most chapters, except when her uncle is back. Despite the dramatic end of Minagoroshi, satoko's case will be fixed (you will probably give more than 1 thumb for keiichi ^^)


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EDIT: And a question about the reboots: with each reboot, the only things that change are whatever leads up to different things happening in June 1983, right? For instance, what happens in London has no bearing on what happens in Hinamizawa, so every last little thing that happens in London happens exactly the same for every reboot, right? Because if, say, random factors caused the people who died in car accidents in London to be different during each reboot, it would be strange that Takano, Tomitake, Irie and all the Watanagashi victims never, ever die in car accidents due to random factors, no matter how many reboots there are.
We don't know since we have a really small amount of "universes".
If i recall right, rika said that she once tried to survive by herself and she hide in the woods. ironically, this was the time she survived the longest period ever. (i don't remember how many hours...)

so, it is possible that in some stories, there are random accidents. However, as you can see, in hinamizawa, there isn't a lot of possibilities of this.
Also, the more hanyuu and Rika reboot the world, the less they can turn back, so there is absolutely no chance that a random factor "helps" and prevents some tragedy (it would be good if takano died a long time ago in a car accident for exemple, but it would end the tragedy immediatelly so )


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So, assuming I got that right, the differences between reboots are caused by Rika acting differently. For instance, in different reboots she varies how she plays the game at the toy shop, so sometimes Keiichi wins the doll and sometimes he doesn't, and whenever Keiichi wins the doll he gives it to Rena, resulting in Shion evenutally going crazy and killing everyone (I'm guessing that Rika evneutally figured out that "Keiichi wins doll" -> "Shion going insane", and thereafter insured that Keiichi never won the doll again). However, there are other changes that don't seem to be directly tied to Rika. For instance, in Onikakushi-hen (ep 1-4) Ooishi interviews Keiichi about Tomitake's apparent suicide, but at the start Tsumihoroboshi-hen (ep 22-26) Ooishi interviews Rena instead, and at the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen he interviews Rika. Does Rika phone in an anonymous tip to the police saying "You should ask X about Tomitake", varying it with each reboot, or is Rika indirectly and unintentionally inlfuencing Ooishi, like through some form of butterfly effect. Or is there someone besides Rika who can behave different during each reboot, independant of how s/he is directly or indirectly influenced by Rika's actions?
the problem : each different action can lead a different result.
however, the events in hinamizawa can change.
example : rika didn't do anything, but keiichi learns about the hinamizawa serial murders differently (the worse case was he discovered too early while he didn't have a solid trust for his friends, and their denial drive him paranoid).
So, like it is said in the minagoroshi prologue : some events are inevitable, due the "strong will" of certain persons.
Some events happen depending of the previous random and different factors.
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