2007-11-01, 21:31 | Link #1 |
Shougi Génération
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[Manga] Elemental Affinities
All right, I'd like to settle this once and for all, because it's been bugging me:
It seems like a lot of people believe you can control all elements by "training" and that elemental affinity just determines your strongest element. 1. Kakashi: Doton, Suiton, Raiton. (Katon was anime-filler and I will ignore it.) 2. Naruto: Fuuton. 3. Sandaime: Doton, Katon. ------- From these three examples: You have people limited in their number of elemental affinities. Even Kakashi, which was told to be the "copy" ninja. To me this means the sharingan can copy only: Techniques related to the Elemental affinities of the user, and Yin and Yang chakra molding. Why was it made such a big deal of Kakuzu possessing all elemental affinities? And finally, most recently, it was said that Pein possesses all elemental jutsus which no person can have. His eyes could learn any type of elemental jutsu and whatever Jiraiya did chuck at him in teaching, he'd handle it no problem. I think this calls for a conclusion: -Elemental affinities are genetic. (Kakuzu has to be the only exception) -Elemental affinities cannot be taught. -The Sharingan may not copy jutsu from outside the user's elements. (Although it can still understand the move) |
2007-11-02, 07:00 | Link #3 | ||||
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It'd seem only reasonable though..for a grandpa hokage to be capable of all elements. Quote:
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Last edited by Xrayz0r; 2007-11-02 at 07:17. |
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2007-11-02, 07:29 | Link #4 | ||||
Shougi Génération
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"And finally, most recently, it was said that Pein possesses all elemental jutsus which no person can have. His eyes could learn any type of elemental jutsu and whatever Jiraiya did chuck at him in teaching, he'd handle it no problem." Quote:
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All elements seems to be something that has been achieved by the Rinnegan alone, and Kakuzu, who found a 'loophole' as you said. Tajuu KB and Sharingan don't have anything to do with elemental affinities. They're techniques that allow the user to train somewhat more efficiently. |
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2007-11-02, 08:07 | Link #6 | |||
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If Rinnegan is somewhat similar to Sharingan, its basic workings are based on understanding. Like a mind thing, not physical. Thus achievements that are thought to be impossible (note: by normal means) become possible because the eye speedens up the process (of learning). Only we've got no clue what Rinnegan does yet.. all we've got so far is a couple of vague statements. Quote:
It's still considered impossible for any midget to ever enter the olympics. Quote:
Last edited by Xrayz0r; 2007-11-02 at 08:24. |
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2007-11-02, 09:22 | Link #7 | |||
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Last edited by Rahan; 2007-11-02 at 09:58. |
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2007-11-02, 09:55 | Link #8 |
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From what I gather is that one can learn to use other affinities, but their natural affinities will always be stronger. If you naturally had two affinities it becomes a BL, but you can use other affinities, but they'll be harder for you to use.
I also don't think that the 3rd knowing jutsus in Konoha was just for hype. One has to remember he was fighting Oro. who had left the village and had been studying jutsus outside of Konoha. So of course the 3rd would not know every jutsu that Oro. has as he's been studying forbidden jutsus in secret, but to be fair the 3rd used atleast 2 elements in the fight against Oro. so that already should answer the question of whether a person can use more than one affinity. Even Kakashi has been shown to use two in that he's created fog, used lightning, and I think he used fire as well. |
2007-11-02, 20:47 | Link #9 | |
Shougi Génération
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I'm not convinced.
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It seems to me that you -can't- learn new elements, because elements uses your chakra affinity. Similarly, Naruto has been bragged as a good ninja while being a complete loser. It would fit well that he'd have only one element. IF, one could learn elemental affinities, with Kage Bunshin, for instance, because it takes "years". Then WHY was Yamato stressing out to Naruto the importance of him being wind to counter Sasuke's raiton, rather than just saying: "Oh, then, let's start training you with water techniques! With KB, it will be a breeze!" My conclusion still stands as: -Genetic. -Cannot be taught. |
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2007-11-02, 21:25 | Link #10 | |
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2007-11-03, 08:33 | Link #11 | ||
Shougi Génération
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And after explaining his Fuuton would improve Sasuke's Katon, why not -if it can be taught- just teach him water elements, since it seems to be achievable in a few weeks thanks to KB? Because it can't be taught. |
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2007-11-03, 10:25 | Link #12 |
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I think that anybody can learn any elemental jutsu with enough practice. However, being able to mold your chakra into a specific element outside of a specific jutsu, like Naruto's Fuuton moves or the Chidori, actually requires an affinity.
That's why it's supposed to be a big deal for somebody to use an element without any of it being present (Nidaime). |
2007-11-03, 17:04 | Link #13 | ||
Ino-Shika-Cho
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Say Naruto's affinity was doton. Then he would be at a disadvantage against Sasuke since he could probably counter a doton rasengan with chidori. So that's why Yamato said he was lucky. He was unlucky that the only element he mastered also happens to be vulnerable to Sasuke's other known element. Quote:
Hypothetically let's say Naruto meets up with Sasuke again. And let's say Sasuke's katon abilities are the difference in that fight. Naruto's fuuton rasengan is useless against Sasuke since he can counter it with a powerful enough fire jutsu. This could very well set up Naruto having to master the suiton element to compete with Sasuke.
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2007-11-03, 19:47 | Link #14 | ||||
Shougi Génération
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Hm..
I just don't see the logic in it. To me, the fact that everyone would have specific elemental capabilities would fit well in the Narutoverse. And would give some balance to it. Without having -anyone- go, "I now mastered all the elemental jutsus! I r the 1337 !". Quote:
I just think that considering that new unique way of training, it would be a plothole not to train him straight away in Suiton. Quote:
It's something he already does, but just doesn't know about it. He wanted the explanation, and Kakashi just said it would confuse him and left it at that. Quote:
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I seriously don't think elements outside affinities can be learnt, call me stubborn |
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2007-11-03, 19:57 | Link #15 | |
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Edit: Regarding Sandaime; He was called "The Professor," which suggests he was the most learned shinobi, in all techniques, in Konoha. I don't think it's a stretch to believe that this title suggests he learned elemental techniques outside of his affinity.
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Last edited by Quzor; 2007-11-03 at 20:12. Reason: one final note... |
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2007-11-03, 21:05 | Link #16 | |||
Shougi Génération
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Well..
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And if the reason why Kakashi doesn't have a kekke genkai from the beginning is because he learnt his other elements: How did he learn them that fast? They don't even speak of how long it takes to acquire a new element. Elemental recomposition doesn't mean you recompose into any element, otherwise Naruto could already do it. They were still training him in elementally recomposing his wind chakra. Take Sasuke, for example. He only used fire jutsus, and that -clearly- was his affinity, being born in the Uchiha clan and yadiyadiya. When Naruto is training under Kakashi, he is learning about "Elemental recomposition" And is recomposing his element, wind, into the falling waterfall. Sasuke was doing the same training for the chuunin exam and completed it successfully in "Quite a large number of days." But that's recomposing the element. So in one month, Sasuke learned: -A new element. -Spatial recomposition. -Elemental recomposition. ?? I find that a bit too much for one month. As for the Sandaime, he can still be outstanding without knowing -every- (literally) jutsu in Konoha. It -was- hype. Knowing also doesn't mean that he can perform them or uses them. |
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2007-11-03, 23:34 | Link #18 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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at El_Frenchie
Sasuke already new a little bit about elemental jutsu and he is a genius. Kakashi states that every jonin in kohona knows 2 elements, meaning other elements can be learned. Last edited by quashoko; 2007-11-03 at 23:34. Reason: hum |
2007-11-04, 10:07 | Link #20 | |||
Shougi Génération
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======= To me, the number of elemental affinities one is a huge part of determining a ninja's "talent". Kakashi told Naruto how spatially recomposing and elementally recomposing your chakra took several years. If he had been learning himself, why wouldn't he reflect on his past experiences? |
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