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Old 2007-05-30, 11:33   Link #81
Wuya
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I hope they make a season 2. It shouldn't end this way. So sad... T.T
...nope, thats the story actually ends...

Key's stories will do that to you...
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Old 2007-05-30, 16:57   Link #82
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It was poorly explained in the anime though. If they'd used the 13th episode as extra story time instead of a cut and paste clip job; and if they'd made a better ending to episode 12 than vacuous speeches by the minor characters trying to justify their places in the plot, then it would have been a whole lot better. Air was unavoidably tragic, but thanks to the lack of any coherent explanation the ending was also needlessly sour.
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Old 2007-05-31, 10:03   Link #83
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You think Air is tragic? Go read Key's "visual novels" such as Planetarium or Clannad.
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Old 2007-06-01, 14:34   Link #84
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It's plenty tragic enough for me, I'm not the "Grave of the Fireflies" type, I don't set out to watch sad anime, it just seems to keep happening that a lot of the series I watch end up being rather tragic. (I knew nothing about Air when I started watching it, other than that someone had said it was beautifully drawn, and generally I prefer things that way, knowing nothing more about a series than the episodes I've seen so far.)
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Old 2007-06-09, 13:45   Link #85
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AIR's ending is damn profound too. Tragic? Not really I guess since what Misuzu and Yukito are trying to accomplish has been achieved. At the very least, their sacrifices were all not for nothing. The whole thing certainly left a very deep impression in me though.
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Old 2007-06-09, 15:13   Link #86
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It's tragic if you consider Misuzu's death. But a happy ending if you consider the fact that Misuzu and Kanna are the same person (Misuzu is a part of Kanna's soul) so in the end she came back to live a normal and hopefully happy life.



Now after ignoring any thoughts of AIR for the past 2 months, I'm gonna rewatch it again with no detailed memories of the show, resulting in a similar experience to the 1st time I watched it! God I love this show!
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Old 2007-06-12, 16:21   Link #87
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I wouldn't say it is profound because most anime endings don't give a definite conclusion. That way you can draw your own conclusion and possibly for a sequel.

The beach-reunion scene at the end of ep11 was so heavy. Just like many others have said, I couldn't stop crying for a while. One of the few anime scenes that trigger so much emotion.
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Old 2007-06-14, 20:37   Link #88
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Originally Posted by K3cT View Post
AIR's ending is damn profound too. Tragic? Not really I guess since what Misuzu and Yukito are trying to accomplish has been achieved. At the very least, their sacrifices were all not for nothing.
That was exactly what I didn't feel though. At the end of episode 12 I did feel that their sacrifices were all for nothing, that was what made it so depressing. It was only through reading lots of other opinions on the series that I began to see it was possible to find a positive interpretation of the events, and although I now feel the curse probably was broken, I'm still damned if I can explain it to anyone else in a way that sounds convincing. For one thing, if in principle it is impossible for a human to contain the soul of a winged being, then only by stopping the cycle of reincarnation can Kanna find peace, yet we apparently see another incarnation at the end.. unless the little girl is meant to be someone else, eg. Uraha?
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Old 2007-06-19, 02:38   Link #89
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Curse my inability to resist spoiling myself! I just had to go and read this entire thread when I've only seen 2 episodes of AIR so far...this is almost as bad as when I read kj1980's Matsuribayashi-hen translation after watching only 6 or 7 episodes of Higurashi, or how I've read Hinano's entire CLANNAD game storyline synopsis. I have only myself to blame.

Although...this didn't really spoil all that much for me. I think I've already picked up most of the plot points simply through browsing anime forums and blogs. Besides, I have no problem with being spoiled...

Anyway, the only two episodes I've seen so far are episode 1...and episode 12 (I knew enough of the story to not be lost with ep 12...plus, I know about EFZ Misuzu's Final Memory, which is spoilerific enough). I know. Kagikkos may proceed to chase me with torches and pitchforks now. But I will say that AIR episode 12 officially makes my list of "Really Good Episode 12's", which includes other fantastic episodes like "Live A Live", "Deviant Waltz", "Discovered Attack", and "Twilight of the Papers". Yes, I blatantly stole this from Jason Miao of AoMM, who made quite a good point in noticing how episode 12's were usually among the best of many good series.

OK, I'm done rambling. Proceed to mock me now. >_<
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Old 2007-06-19, 06:05   Link #90
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That was exactly what I didn't feel though. At the end of episode 12 I did feel that their sacrifices were all for nothing, that was what made it so depressing. It was only through reading lots of other opinions on the series that I began to see it was possible to find a positive interpretation of the events, and although I now feel the curse probably was broken, I'm still damned if I can explain it to anyone else in a way that sounds convincing. For one thing, if in principle it is impossible for a human to contain the soul of a winged being, then only by stopping the cycle of reincarnation can Kanna find peace, yet we apparently see another incarnation at the end.. unless the little girl is meant to be someone else, eg. Uraha?
There were two curses. One made it so that Kanna's reincarnations couldn't make friends lest they and their friend die (given to her when she hugged her mother), and the other is what's causing her to constantly reincarnate (given to her by the Buddhist monks) The first curse was broken since Misuzu was given happy memories, just as Yukito said it would. However, it's left up to speculation whether the second one will ever be broken, and if not, Kanna will continue to reincarnate into bodies that will never live past 16. Sora is shown flying away to find Kanna at the end, presumably so he can break the second curse. In addition, the children shown are most likely Yukito and Misuzu's reincarnations. So although it leaves some things unanswered, it hints at hope.

The thing that kept it sad for me was that regardless of whether Misuzu reincarnates or not, there'll still never be another Misuzu. Kanna was nothing like Misuzu, so I wasn't particularly happy about the attempt to make the ending hopeful.

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Curse my inability to resist spoiling myself! I just had to go and read this entire thread when I've only seen 2 episodes of AIR so far...this is almost as bad as when I read kj1980's Matsuribayashi-hen translation after watching only 6 or 7 episodes of Higurashi, or how I've read Hinano's entire CLANNAD game storyline synopsis. I have only myself to blame.

Although...this didn't really spoil all that much for me. I think I've already picked up most of the plot points simply through browsing anime forums and blogs. Besides, I have no problem with being spoiled...

Anyway, the only two episodes I've seen so far are episode 1...and episode 12 (I knew enough of the story to not be lost with ep 12...plus, I know about EFZ Misuzu's Final Memory, which is spoilerific enough). I know. Kagikkos may proceed to chase me with torches and pitchforks now. But I will say that AIR episode 12 officially makes my list of "Really Good Episode 12's", which includes other fantastic episodes like "Live A Live", "Deviant Waltz", "Discovered Attack", and "Twilight of the Papers". Yes, I blatantly stole this from Jason Miao of AoMM, who made quite a good point in noticing how episode 12's were usually among the best of many good series.

OK, I'm done rambling. Proceed to mock me now. >_<
If you didn't watch the first half, you missed a lot of the story. The plot is uncertain for the first half of the show, focusing on several subplots. After they're all exhausted, it moves on to the main plot.
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Old 2007-06-19, 07:25   Link #91
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However, it's left up to speculation whether the second one will ever be broken, and if not, Kanna will continue to reincarnate into bodies that will never live past 16. Sora is shown flying away to find Kanna at the end, presumably so he can break the second curse. In addition, the children shown are most likely Yukito and Misuzu's reincarnations. So although it leaves some things unanswered, it hints at hope.
It's true that Yukito's flight will remain a mystery and a key to confirm whether the girl in the end is Misuzu or Kanna. But remember that reincarnations in AIR's world don't follow the regular time line. Yukito transformed into a crow at episode 7 (or something, I forgot it on purpose and I don't want to check it for the time being) and was reincarnated back at episode 1. So it could be possible that Yukito went looking for Kanna in the sky and broke the second curse. Resulting in reincarnating her into that little girl at the end (which is before the start of Yukito's flight).

Another key to the girl's identity would be the identity of the boy that came along her. Since he said "we are given a new start" it indicates that those two were a couple together in the past and suffered horrible fate (Ryuuya X Kanna OR Yukito X Misuzu). It's up the viewer to choose between one of the couples and get his own conclusion of the story. It is an ero-game after all

But personally, I'm going with the Ryuuya X Kanna reincarnation, because of the reincarnation time line point I mentioned and because of the girl's hair color. It was blue, like Kanna's beautiful hair.
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Old 2007-06-19, 16:32   Link #92
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It's true that Yukito's flight will remain a mystery and a key to confirm whether the girl in the end is Misuzu or Kanna. But remember that reincarnations in AIR's world don't follow the regular time line. Yukito transformed into a crow at episode 7 (or something, I forgot it on purpose and I don't want to check it for the time being) and was reincarnated back at episode 1. So it could be possible that Yukito went looking for Kanna in the sky and broke the second curse. Resulting in reincarnating her into that little girl at the end (which is before the start of Yukito's flight).

Another key to the girl's identity would be the identity of the boy that came along her. Since he said "we are given a new start" it indicates that those two were a couple together in the past and suffered horrible fate (Ryuuya X Kanna OR Yukito X Misuzu). It's up the viewer to choose between one of the couples and get his own conclusion of the story. It is an ero-game after all

But personally, I'm going with the Ryuuya X Kanna reincarnation, because of the reincarnation time line point I mentioned and because of the girl's hair color. It was blue, like Kanna's beautiful hair.
The fact that she reincarnated at all shows that the curse is not broken. The reason she's dying young is because a human body cannot contain the soul of a winged being.
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Old 2007-06-19, 16:50   Link #93
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The fact that she reincarnated at all shows that the curse is not broken. The reason she's dying young is because a human body cannot contain the soul of a winged being.
In Buddhism (and I think Shintoism), souls will reincarnate regardless of a curse.

If only we could check the little kid's back...
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Old 2007-06-19, 23:52   Link #94
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In Buddhism (and I think Shintoism), souls will reincarnate regardless of a curse.

If only we could check the little kid's back...
Not in the case of Kanna. Don't you remember the lore for winged beings? They were supposed to be messengers who went to and from earth. Kanna, however, is being forced to reincarnate rather than return to where she came from. It's the reason that other winged beings don't have the same problem as her.
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Old 2007-06-20, 02:13   Link #95
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OK, I have seen up through episode 9 now. I'll probably finish tomorrow. ^_^

Anyway, I don't think the show follows Buddhism's rules regarding reincarnation. It seems like Kanna is the only character bound by reincarnation, really. Kano got to see her mother's spirit to thank her, while Ryuuya and Uraha were shown reuniting with one another after death at the end of ep. 9. To me, it seems more plausible that the characters in AIR end up in some sort of spiritual heaven or something beyond the sky (pardon the cheesiness). I don't see much evidence for reincarnation to be a rule that anyone besides Kanna and maybe Yukito must follow.

That's why I don't like how the movie stated that Yukito was Ryuuya's reincarnation. It's less problematic to say that Yukito is merely Ryuuya's descendant who has inherited his will to save Kanna. I'd also consider him the only other character who could reincarnate, as demonstrated by Sora. But here lies the problem: what then do I make of the two kids at the end?

As stated earlier, I'm assuming that reincarnation isn't the rule in AIR, but Kanna and Yukito were merely the exception. It's possible then that the girl at the end was Kanna reincarnated, with the curse still unbroken. One thing that really bothers me with this idea is that Yukito (whom I assume to be the only living descendant of Ryuuya right now) left no children, so Ryuuya's lineage has effectively ended with him. So if Kanna did reincarnate again as part of the curse, who is left to free her of it? I refuse to accept that Kanna's doomed to be cursed forever with the departure of Ryuuya's final descendant. So what now?

My current theory? I'm still inclined to believe that the boy at the end is Yukito reincarnated, as shown by his recognition of Yukito and Misuzu, and the words he whispers to them regarding their fate. The girl, meanwhile, I believe is Kanna's next reincarnation. She has no memory of her past lives, but Yukito can partially remember what has happened (like Sora). Perhaps a millenium's worth of unfulfilled wishes in Yukito's doll have finally burst forth and gifted Yukito with the ability to reincarnate alongside Kanna's reincarnation, to continue being with her while the curse is still around. I think that's what he (Sora) meant at the end when he said he'll continue to search for her, and welcome a new beginning. I believe the curse has been weakened, as Kanna's reincarnations are now able to feel love and friendship without pain, but I think they may still die young. Despite this, Yukito will continue to be around to accompany them, and perhaps eventually build up enough happy memories to break the curse entirely, thus freeing both him and Kanna of their imprisonment in the reincarnation cycle. At that point, they will finally be free to journey to heaven or whatever it is (you know, where Kano's mom, Ryuuya, and Uraha are).

Speaking of which, I believe Kanna's reincarnations aren't copies of her soul, but merely vessels for her soul to be poured into. Thus, they are all separate beings. So at the end, perhaps Yukito will also be reunited with Misuzu, who's currently waiting in the same place as Ryuuya and co. Of course, this is sorta more wishful thinking on my part, as I don't have much evidence from the show to back it up.

Anyway, this theory reconciles the children at the end with the notion that reincarnation isn't normal for everyone else. It's what I've come up with and believe...for now. How does it stack up?

Last edited by Mirrinus; 2007-06-20 at 02:30.
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Old 2007-06-20, 02:42   Link #96
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Not in the case of Kanna. Don't you remember the lore for winged beings? They were supposed to be messengers who went to and from earth. Kanna, however, is being forced to reincarnate rather than return to where she came from. It's the reason that other winged beings don't have the same problem as her.
Hmm... good point
Curse not broken, then.

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That's why I don't like how the movie stated that Yukito was Ryuuya's reincarnation. It's less problematic to say that Yukito is merely Ryuuya's descendant who has inherited his will to save Kanna. I'd also consider him the only other character who could reincarnate, as demonstrated by Sora.
So, if Yukito wasn't Ryuuya's reincarnation, then what do you make of the scene where Yukito hallucinated being slashed across his back along with an identical scar to the one Ryuuya had?

Everything else seems to make pretty good sense, though.
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Old 2007-06-20, 02:49   Link #97
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So, if Yukito wasn't Ryuuya's reincarnation, then what do you make of the scene where Yukito hallucinated being slashed across his back along with an identical scar to the one Ryuuya had?
Why wouldn't it be possible to be reincarnated as one of your own descendants? We've already been shown that reincarnations don't follow linear time (next reincarnation can be in the past (Sora)) and that reincarnations of the same person can coexist in the same time (Yukito and Sora).
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Old 2007-06-20, 02:54   Link #98
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So, if Yukito wasn't Ryuuya's reincarnation, then what do you make of the scene where Yukito hallucinated being slashed across his back along with an identical scar to the one Ryuuya had?
I believe that event was a manifestation of Ryuuya's will upon Yukito, showing that out of all his descendants, it's Yukito who most embodies his unbending will to free Kanna. Ryuuya's scar across his back symbolized how much he valued Kanna and his iron will to live for her sake; he was willing to even risk death for the sake of obeying her order not to kill. Similarly, it was around that point that Yukito had resolved to sacrifice his own life for the sake of Misuzu's. I don't think any of Yukito's previous ancestors had shown quite that level of devotion to Kanna's reincarnations, so perhaps that scar was a special mark denoting his importance in the final achievement of Ryuuya's will.

I must say, for a series that I already knew the whole story to before I even saw a single episode, this certainly is engaging me thoroughly. I blame Kyoto Animation and Key/Visual Arts for keeping me up at night and making me not get enough sleep for work tomorrow. >_<
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Old 2007-06-20, 05:35   Link #99
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Hmm... I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. Unless someone who's gone through the whole game would like to interject with some bit of information that wasn't in the anime, there's no way to prove or disprove either.
The reason I assume it was Ryuuya's soul over your idea is really little more than the theme of reincarnation being so prevalent, it would seem a bit silly to break away from it so ambiguously. That's a pretty subjective opinion, so I'll just leave it alone.
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Old 2007-06-20, 05:43   Link #100
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I'm rather inclined to think the Yukito is Ryuuya's descendant, seeing as they were the one charged with freeing Kanna and not anyone else. =/
It's not the best reasoning around, but yeah.

And Yukito feeling Ryuuya's slash could be due to the curse. IIRC, the curse doesn't only work for Misuzu but for whoever gets close to her as well.
Yukito said something like this in ep.6 or 7: "I have to leave, otherwise none of us will survive through this."
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