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Old 2007-07-12, 16:30   Link #141
Risaa
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Honestly I like the plain fluffy white rice better than the beany rice, but bean-rice is significantly healthier. I guess it depends exactly what you want to put in it, but I use slightly less rice and a cupfull of beans mixed with whatever else I want in it. Then I close the rice cooker and cook as normal.

I've never cared too much for soy sauce, but it may be because so many of the side dishes I eat are made with soy sauce and have the flavor already added in. If you go to a good Korean restaurant, they're likely to bring out three or four side dishes (out of the million! ) that were made with soy sauce. Two that come to mind right away are chopped potatoes and fishcake.

I *really* got turned off of soy sauce some time ago when I read about some Chinese soy sauce being made with human hair. I don't use Chinese soy sauce, but it creeped me out enough to get me away from all soy sauce altogether.

I'm looking forward to trying horsemeat in Oita next year... I've read it's their specialty.
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Old 2007-07-12, 16:46   Link #142
Claies
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
It took me literally decades to develop a taste for daikon (I actually learned to tolerate natto faster).. but now I reach for it without hesitation.

I'll have to research the "cook bean with rice" thing.... I've heard of certain recipes that call for putting things in with the rice as it cooks but this is new to me.

O yeah, I forgot about the powdered anchovie/fishy bits and bonito flakes. I like them but my wife doesn't use them (she sarcastically calls it fish food... which it really is mostly).

The main brakestop on using shoyu (soy sauce) on rice is that people tend to use too much (it ain't ketchup). Soy sauce is like injecting sodium into your veins if over-used. Instant high blood pressure and secondary problems. It also can easily swamp other tastes in the food (like oversalting does). So if you're going to put soy sauce on your rice... measure it out, really only a few drops (1/4 teaspoon/max) are needed.

Most cultures revolve around their food in some way but its funny how fast asian culture discussions devolve into food chatter
Oh boy...rice. Personally, I know that Japanese rice is far better, but when you eat two bowls every night with a bunch of other people, you can't get something that expensive all the time. My family goes for 15-pound bags of Jasmine.

Daikon is good. Try stewing beef with them. They're awesome when they're nice, hot, and very soft with that beef taste. There's also this Southern Chinese dimsum dish called "radish cake", for which "cake" is more like "pudding." It's that salty kind of pudding, not a dessert, made of daikon radishes, flour, and Chinese pork sausages. I think at least some of you have had those before.

When I was little, my parents made prevailingly adult Chinese dishes that during that time I would not touch with a 3-foot pole. When there's nothing else palatable, I just mix in soy sauce in my standard-issue bowl of white rice, clear it out, and run away. Thus was life.

And yes, that was Chinese soy sauce, and I'm still pretty alive. Try the Lee Kum Kei brand...they're from Hong Kong and not the mainland, so they're pretty clean. You have every right to doubt mainland fare (not to mention your usual food myth), but given my current body condition, not all Chinese soy sauce brands suck.
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Old 2007-07-12, 18:07   Link #143
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Well.. my prior "bean with rice" experience is something called "dirty rice" in east Texas and that state next door. Its a Cajun dish that mixes various spices, beans, and mystery meat bits with rice.
Popeye's Fried Chicken chains serve a faint echo of it (usually too dry and underspiced).

Some Mexican ("texmex") diners serve a refried bean/rice mixture (usually long grain nonsticky rice with chili powder+ seasoning).... now I'm really off-topic. But there are food parallels across the globe --
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Old 2007-07-12, 20:58   Link #144
Joka
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Many asian societies simply value the "harmony" of the society over the needs of an individual. It is up to the individual to support the 'harmony' of the society. One could argue that over-value of individual desires drives the current mess the US is in, in large part because of the imbalance of societal needs versus the individual (in this case, very powerful and greedy individuals). Of course, one could also argue that the 'harmony' preferred by asian society is simply another way to enforce the status quo so that the powerful remain so .
I understand that. I just think it is wrong when you take it too far. I can not understand their mentality because I have just been raised differently.

I think one of the most important things for me is individuality. I can not think about the "group" as much as supposedly they do. I can not put the group in front of me to the degree they can.
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Old 2007-07-12, 21:25   Link #145
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Originally Posted by mit7059 View Post
My mother would turn her nose up in disgust for you even comparing your rice to Japanese rice. She's a total purist, she'll compain about us running out of Japanese rice and then we'll be at costco and there'll be these huge 60 lbs bags of rice and I'll say "hey look rice," to which she'll respond, "please thats indian rice, not japanese rice, I guess I'll just have to drive across town to the Japanese grocery store *sigh*"

Maybe my teenage tastes aren't that refined but I can't tell that much difference between different types of rice, the main difference i see is based on how much water you put in the rice cooker determining how sticky the rice will be
You can also use how refined the grain and its color and texture to tell if its a japanese rice or you could just read what the bag say if it came from japan
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Old 2007-07-12, 21:48   Link #146
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Originally Posted by Joka View Post
I understand that. I just think it is wrong when you take it too far. I can not understand their mentality because I have just been raised differently.

I think one of the most important things for me is individuality. I can not think about the "group" as much as supposedly they do. I can not put the group in front of me to the degree they can.
Well... your first roadblock is that you're defining their choices as "wrong".
Each choice has advantages and disadvantages. The extreme end of individuality is that you chuck altruism and charity out the door and its all about "me me me". I think we see the negative results of that mentality all the time here in the US "not my problem" "not my trash" "not in my backyard" "they're all on their own, screw 'em" ....
On the other hand, collectivist thinking leads to some pretty cruel behavior against the individual, also wrong. Such thinking also means the social structure misses out on the possible improvements that individualism might create.

There's a happy medium: collectivism could learn from individualistic cultures and vice versa --- but we all know that societies have an innate skill in picking up the worst attributes of other societies.
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Old 2007-07-12, 22:56   Link #147
Joka
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Well... your first roadblock is that you're defining their choices as "wrong".
Each choice has advantages and disadvantages. The extreme end of individuality is that you chuck altruism and charity out the door and its all about "me me me". I think we see the negative results of that mentality all the time here in the US "not my problem" "not my trash" "not in my backyard" "they're all on their own, screw 'em" ....
On the other hand, collectivist thinking leads to some pretty cruel behavior against the individual, also wrong. Such thinking also means the social structure misses out on the possible improvements that individualism might create.

There's a happy medium: collectivism could learn from individualistic cultures and vice versa --- but we all know that societies have an innate skill in picking up the worst attributes of other societies.
I am defining things as wrong or right by my outlook at life. I talked about extremism of either side being bad. As it "seems" the degree they put the group above themselves I can not agree with and I deem it as wrong. The company, the group, the group agreement they put above a lot of things and I just do not agree with that mentality and I think it is wrong. Not giving a shit about anybody on the other hand is also wrong.
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:05   Link #148
Risaa
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My two cents...

It's not more right or more wrong than individualism; it's just an alternate way of thinking.

Think about when you were put in groups in school... If you assigned a job to everyone in the group, and if everyone did their part, your group would be very successful. No one person would get more credit than anyone else. In the same situation, if there was a kid left out and they decided to do things on their own, it could also be as beneficial... but what if there was something they didn't know how to do? In that case, a group would've been better.

We've already established that there are pros and cons to both. I know I probably won't be able to change your mindset that it's just plain wrong, though, as you seem very set in your thinking.
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:12   Link #149
Joka
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My two cents...

It's not more right or more wrong than individualism; it's just an alternate way of thinking.

Think about when you were put in groups in school... If you assigned a job to everyone in the group, and if everyone did their part, your group would be very successful. No one person would get more credit than anyone else. In the same situation, if there was a kid left out and they decided to do things on their own, it could also be as beneficial... but what if there was something they didn't know how to do? In that case, a group would've been better.

We've already established that there are pros and cons to both. I know I probably won't be able to change your mindset that it's just plain wrong, though, as you seem very set in your thinking.
Never said group mind set is wrong. I said several times the degree to which they take it is wrong.
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:13   Link #150
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I am defining things as wrong or right by my outlook at life.
The thing is, your "outlook at life" is predetermined, mostly, by your cultural background. In this case, your moral standards are mostly defined by what the western standards are, so obviously the approach would be much different.
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2007-07-12 at 23:22. Reason: stupid typo >.<
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:16   Link #151
Joka
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The thing is, your "outlook at life" is predetermined, mostly, by your cultural background. In this case, your moral standards are mostly defined by what the western standards are, so obviously the approach would be much difference.


I know, but that is what i have as a set of tools to judge things.
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:20   Link #152
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O_O.... Y'know, I was about to post something else until I saw you post this:
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I know, but that is what i have as a set of tools to judge things.
And you're right. There's really nothing more to say on it. Of course you believe it's wrong because that's what you were raised with.... You've just inspired me to travel even more, to learn even more different viewpoints and to try understand it all. Thanks. o_o
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:27   Link #153
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O_O.... Y'know, I was about to post something else until I saw you post this:

And you're right. There's really nothing more to say on it. Of course you believe it's wrong because that's what you were raised with.... You've just inspired me to travel even more, to learn even more different viewpoints and to try understand it all. Thanks. o_o
I want to travel to Japan. I would like to live there, but I have heard it is very hard to get integrated into the society and that it is hell getting a car, apartment, etc. I also heard that even though friendly to foreigners the Japanese interact (to a degree) with one because it is considered the "cool" thing to have one as a friend and to interact with one, thus putting the actual friendship relationship as a lesser reason and putting impressing other Japanese as the highest reason (however I am not sure how true that is).

I also heard that for Japanese women dating a foreigner is considered very good, but marrying one is looked down upon or something along that.
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:28   Link #154
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I know, but that is what i have as a set of tools to judge things.
And, y'know, wouldn't it be a good think to, y'know, try to broaden your perspective a lil' wee bit more? Y'know?

Quote:
I want to travel to Japan. I would like to live there, but I have heard it is very hard to get integrated into the society and that it is hell getting a car, apartment, etc. I also heard that even though friendly to foreigners the Japanese interact with one because it is considered the "cool" thing to have one as a friend and to interact as one, thus putting the actual friendship relationship as the lesser reason. I also heard that for Japanese women dating a foreigner is considered very good, but marrying one is looked down upon or something along that.
Once again, a few foreigner looks can't get the whole picture, and will never be able to cover all possibilities. The Japanese are people, too, and as such, they have different personalities and reactions towards the same thing. You can find a lot of conservative people, and a lot of liberal people, and I'm sure of it, and I would swear it even if my balls were on fire.
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:42   Link #155
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I was raised a "christian methodist" but I'm something quite different now. You're not stuck with the tools you're raised with is my point. You can choose to at least understand other toolsets even if you don't use them or like them

As far as living in Japan... you'll *never* be integrated there, just like you'll never be integrated into Mexican or German society completely. But you *can* reach a pleasant accomodation. In Japan, you'll always be the amazing dancing bear (as a few friends who live there put it). You'll have to be happy hearing "you speak good japanese" or "o my, you can use chopsticks" or "it must be wonderful to live in a country now with four real seasons". Its a lot of fun if you don't let it get on your nerves, particularly if people don't realize you understand what they're saying on the bus

As per dating Japanese women (wait a moment as I prepare to insult a huge number of men in Japan) ... they're annoyed that many of the men are still mentally stuck in the 1950s. So dating could be a win for you. Marriage is different because if they choose to marry a non-citizen, well I invite you to read Peter Payne's experiences on the web. He runs j-list.com and has an email blog about living in Japan being married to a Japanese national.
Its complicated but can be done. From what he says, he encounters little more problems than my wife and I did as we dated here in the US back in the 1970s.

Usually we'd get nasty or astonished looks from visiting Japanese businessmen and occasionally some distant relative in my family might say something really stupid like "I hear they make really good wives" .. .after which my wife would subtly cut them to shreds with her heavy Texas accent.

But if you're persistent, good-natured, non-judgemental about different solutions to societal pressures, and persistent (yes, especially persistent) .... one could do reasonably well there.. even become a citizen.
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:45   Link #156
Risaa
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Originally Posted by Joka View Post
I also heard that even though friendly to foreigners the Japanese interact (to a degree) with one because it is considered the "cool" thing to have one as a friend and to interact with one, thus putting the actual friendship relationship as a lesser reason and putting impressing other Japanese as the highest reason (however I am not sure how true that is).
That can be applied to many people in many countries though. At my university, people were lined up around the building applying to partner-up with an exchange student. Not all, but most people were there because they wanted to feel cool, show off their partner to their friends, etc.

Also, you can't really expect that's going to happen in every situation - it depends on the person whether they'll use you or if they geniunely want to be your friend.

Quote:
I also heard that for Japanese women dating a foreigner is considered very good, but marrying one is looked down upon or something along that.
I know this is a very specific example (again it would depend on the individual people), but one friend who was born and raised in Japan decided to marry a foreigner, and her family thinks it's awesome. XD
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:54   Link #157
Joka
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As far as living in Japan... you'll *never* be integrated there, just like you'll never be integrated into Mexican or German society completely. But you *can* reach a pleasant accomodation. In Japan, you'll always be the amazing dancing bear (as a few friends who live there put it). You'll have to be happy hearing "you speak good japanese" or "o my, you can use chopsticks" or "it must be wonderful to live in a country now with four real seasons". Its a lot of fun if you don't let it get on your nerves, particularly if people don't realize you understand what they're saying on the bus
Taken excerpt from one website and this excerpt deals exactly with what you said about the chopstick things etc.

Quote:
the westerner coming to Japan will right from the airport be drowned in the "compliment" Nihongo wa jouzu desu neh, or "Your Japanese is good". It's usually spoken in a "Look Mom, the horse can do math problems" kind of way -- slightly condecending. The problem with all this is that it is put on you a thousand times a day, every time you open your mouth, in exactly those same words -- never once said in a different way. And the fact that it has nothing to do with your Japanese ability. In fact, the better your Japanese gets, the less you hear it. Even more demeaning is hearing "O-hashi wa jouzu desu neh" which means you can use chopsticks well. The fact that a 4 or 5 year old Japanese child is supposed to use them easily but you're never expected to know how is an insult few Japanese are "international" enough to realize. To the Japanese, they are not consciously looking down on you, but rather trying to establish rapport through bombarding you with things they think you like to hear. It's important not to get upset about this and just play humble by denying the praise over and over as they would. All of that is relatively benign. The real problem is dealing with the occasional neanderthal where even if you've attained near native fluency they still have a "See-White-Face, Hear-Japanese, Does-Not-Compute" mentality, or the elitist complaining how you foreigners never bother to learn Japanese, and then you come along speaking proper Japanese and they insist in doing all communication in English. The reason being that more conservative types see language as race, and race as language, and when there is someone not part of the group suddenly among "us", they unconsciously feel a threat. Dealing with such Groupthink is going to be a challenge, but while you never have to like it you're going to have to deal with it. Many Japanese view westerners on two levels -- if you are taken as a temporary visitor, they nearly always treat you extremely warmly and helpfully; even lavishly. But if you are someone trying to become a member of society, there can be quite a different attitude.


Edit:

By the way this was taken off the j-liet.com website from one of his entries and I do not understand why you can not say that in Japan:

Quote:
It's funny, the way children pick up language. As my kids were growing up, I spoke English to them, although they'd usually speak Japanese back to me despite my efforts to pretend I didn't understand. When we'd go to the U.S., my kids would get a real dose of English from the other family members, and (being kids) would double their vocabularies every day. One day when my son was about four, I asked him, "Would you mind if I went to dinner with your Mom tonight?" I intentionally used a phrase using "mind," which is the bane of Japanese people since you have to answer "no" if you mean "yes" and vice-versa, to see if he understood the question.

Last edited by Joka; 2007-07-13 at 00:09.
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Old 2007-07-13, 01:19   Link #158
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By the way this was taken off the j-liet.com website from one of his entries and I do not understand why you can not say that in Japan:
This is a question of Japanese language, but let me exemplify:

English:

"Won't you come with me?"
"Yes, I will".

Japanese:

"Won't you come with me?"
"No, I will" [Yes, I will come with you].

Basically, when you ask them a yes/no question with a verb, they either assert or negate the verb, not the whole idea. When they answer "No" to the question "Won't you come with me?", they are actually saying, "no, it's not true that I won't be coming with you".

To clarify further, in romaji:

Ashita, gakkoni ikimasen ka = [Tomorrow][to school][not go][?]
Hai, ikimasen. = [Yes][not go]

I hope that was clear enough.

Quote:
which is the bane of Japanese people since you have to answer "no" if you mean "yes" and vice-versa
That is actually a really poor way of putting it. It makes me distrust that website even more.
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Old 2007-07-13, 01:37   Link #159
Vexx
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aye, I mean, Nyet... oui? errrrr, <screams and jumps in lake>

Like Knight says, in english its the intent that is answered.
In Japanese, its the verb being answered wholly. It still catches me offguard occasionally.

Its okay.. double negatives ruin my japanese teacher's day in reverse case.
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Old 2007-07-13, 01:46   Link #160
Risaa
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Its okay.. double negatives ruin my japanese teacher's day in reverse case.
Same for me, as well. Most recent:

"You don't think she's going to come?"
"Yes" (Yes, I don't think she's going to come.)

But of course, the person took it to mean, "yes, I think she's going to come".

Sorry, I saw the post and would've answered the question earlier, but I didn't understand what was being asked...
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