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View Poll Results: By what method did you get recruited in to fansubbing?
I started at the bottom and worked my way up with tutelage from my peers 53 39.26%
I started my own group and learned as I went along 41 30.37%
I joined a new group with one or two *experienced* fansubber who taught us how to do stuff 23 17.04%
I joined a new group and all of us were new and we worked it out as we went along 18 13.33%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-07-05, 00:22   Link #21
edogawaconan
LOL?
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
None of the above. I learned most of the tricks of the encoding trade in #darkhold and by self-study. That was enough to get me into some established groups as an encoder. I later picked up timing and typesetting, also mostly by self-study.
same here, minus estabilished group and #darkhold.
oh and I tried timing and give up (not that I can't. I just rather hate it)
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Old 2007-07-05, 00:23   Link #22
Ayanami9870
ANBU Editor/QC
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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I was a leecher on DALnet starting from 1999 or so. Long ago, one of the editor/timers of AnimeJunkies was displeased with how Killshok was running things, and when Aniverse was created, he decided to start up a new group. When he finally found a translator in 2002, he got two experts at the time (one from BakaMX, one from Anime-Keep) to volunteer as mentors in training the new members. I was one of those new members who joined, and was taught the basics of editing, encoding, and typesetting.

While some of their software and methods are now outdated, their basic principles still hold true, and I still go by them today, using today's technology. Their early guidance helped me learn faster from a lot of beginner's mistakes. Granted, each of them had their own quirky biases from their field, but we were mutually aware of that and they gave me the space to develop my own style.

I believe that this type of mentoring is completely nonexistant today. Things change much too quickly and documentation on fansubbing has proliferated to the point that self-study is possible. Is this a bad thing? Are they jumping into the deep end devoid of wisdom? We can't say for sure. Whether they learned alone, or from somebody else, we still see fansubbers with various levels of skill or work ethic. What I will say though, is that it was nice to have a working relationship with experienced subbers and gain new connections, whereas self-study is more solitary.

This is especially true for typesetters and karaokers, because for those positions, it's mostly about experimentation and innovating from previous tricks. It's probably a better idea to bounce a few ideas off each other, rather than unleash these bouncy, neon-coloured, oversized and excessively flashy experiments upon the viewing public. They'll probably skip the theme songs to watch the episodes instead at that point.
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Old 2007-07-05, 01:20   Link #23
runpsicat
Engrishator
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
All in all, I think "I joined a new group and all of us were new and we worked it out as we went along" is the best fit for me. Three years after moving to the US, I wanted to use my Japanese more actively because it was getting rusty with disuse. A series of coincidences led me to agree with someone who knew about IRC/fansubbing that I should try translating as an exercise. It seemed like such a reasonable idea at the time... In any case, I had no idea fansubs and IRC even existed, so I was a total noob and needed someone to set me up with a group.

The first group I was introduced to was a relatively new group with some experienced people, but their translator had disappeared. I was completely on my own with regard to translating. There was also no real mentoring of any kind on the overall IRC & group organization stuff, as there was no staff cohesion whatsoever beyond some talk about gaming and capcom vs. something, which I couldn't relate to at all. I generally lurked and wondered what the hell I'd gotten myself into. I tend to not count this as a real fansubbing experience (well, aside from the drama).

The second group I joined was even newer and struggling to get itself off the ground, though we had a fair number of (semi-?)experienced people so it wasn't a totally "noob" group. We had no real idea how to do things--at least not how to do things well. We weren't very popular with the established crowd, and of course our releases weren't great. We had a lot of internal shaping up to do in order to stay operational as well as improve. There were no "senior" translators for guidance, either, but I now had staff I could actually talk to about how I might best format my scripts to make it easier for timers/editors etc., so I started fine-tuning what I could. It was discouraging/stressful but also strangely motivating that we were looked down upon by other groups. Some of us would discuss how other groups set up things and whether that'd improve things, etc. I'd like to think all those discussions made us a better team (though sadly, most of the people from that "era" are now gone...). Apparently, we're now considered acceptable (maybe even "old"/"dying" to some) and a lot of people don't remember how noob we were.

Given the above experience, I would personally find it too hypocritical to automatically denounce new groups for even trying or automatically assume that if a group sucks, it always will. I also think older groups tend to get somewhat complacent and can start depending on their previous reputation instead of maintaining that drive to improve or keep up (i.e. if a group is good at one point, it doesn't mean it will stay that way forever), but that's true of most organizations. It may start feeling more like a non-paying job than an enjoyable hobby once you start worrying too much about things like that. "Fansubbing: serious business", perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Access View Post
Too many of the established groups have problems of their own, newbies are often better off just starting their own groups and surrounding themselves with people who think like they do. Lately, focussed groups with active members, working on just one or two series seems to be what is working best.
I agree. In the end, group dynamics figure significantly in a group's lifespan.

Sorry for the longish post.
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Last edited by runpsicat; 2007-07-05 at 01:43.
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Old 2007-07-05, 02:04   Link #24
CelesAurivern
Mein Kampf :D
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Join Date: Feb 2004
I started out with one thing in mind; doing shows that no one else wants to sub(whatever their reasons may be).
A couple of years later, what I built is still standing. People have come and gone, and those that remain have gained levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbaloom View Post
Personally I think it's a BAD thing that this sort of thing seems to be happening.
The main problem here is that these random startups simply have no staying power. Lack of skills aside, which can be quickly learnt anyway, there's the issue of lack of capable leadership. Then there's also the lack of commitment, short interest span, changes in priorities, etc.
In short: Heh, the kids these days.
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Old 2007-07-05, 05:13   Link #25
Access
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Join Date: Jan 2004
I think what people miss is there are several types of 'new' groups. Sure there are pleanty of new posts in 'help wanted' every day of a guy wanting to lead a group, with no experience, and seeking every possible position. But sucessful new groups don't start out this way.

Sometimes they are spin-offs of existing groups. A well-known example would be the Anime-Keep(?) split. Conclave(?) was it?

Sometimes it's a bunch of people, a full team, who decides they want to sub some anime that isn't being subbed, or that is being subbed but appears stalled or is indeterminate status. A contemporary example would be kedex-subbing and Kamichama Karin.

Sometimes they already have a translator, or it's a full team of people connected in some way.

Sometimes it's a bunch of experienced people from a smattering of different groups; who want to work on a specific project but whose own-group's can't do a joint project.

I've seen newbies run into too many problems in the more 'established' groups they've joined; for instance 'seniority complex' where older members who don't actually do any work expect to be able to order and boss around the newbies who do the work; conflicts in schedules or release philosopies; people who just don't get along and can't keep things from becoming personal, 'problem' people in general; people 'forcing' others to work on projects they don't want to work on, or people being on projects they don't really want to be on; etc. This is the basis of my earlier comment. Frankly it's not too hard to start a new group, and there are pleanty of resources and guides already out there for people who have no idea what to do or where to start.

In many cases, starting a new group is the least risky way to go. You can surround yourself with no-nonsense people who get along and all want to be there, want to work on the same project; everyone is on the same level and no one is more 'senior' than anyone else; everyone is active; structures, processes, and rules that help rather than hurt the group as a whole; etc.
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Old 2007-07-06, 16:11   Link #26
aquastar831
AQS-Anime
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I voted for started a new group. AQS had started as a fan community first for Negima and a few of the sites I had created, then the scanlation team came around. When it came to the Fall 2005 list, decided to give fansubbing a shot and learn the ropes. Chose To Heart 2 TV series as our first project, and jointed with Avalon. Those guys taught pretty much the majority of us who were newbies the whole process and a lot of what we know now. Typesetting and encoding I learned on my own. Usually I try to read up or ask people in other groups what they do in order to improve quality.

Group dynamics and organization really are key in how well the group works together. For the most part, we try to keep a relaxed and "let's enjoy the series and have fun working on it" mindset. I know it's not easy for people who are students and/or have full time jobs, so we try to back each other up when someone is unable to get a task done, which is why we also rotate for example when it comes to the editors, timers, quality checkers, etc. so we don't overload people.
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Old 2007-07-06, 20:35   Link #27
Nicholi
King of Hosers
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 31
My story mimics TheFluff's except he "dove" into fansubbing way before me . I think when you learn how something works as an encoder doing gaspu... DVDRips, you are essentially a 1 man project. And you at least have to be somewhat familiar with all the pieces to the puzzle, including the subtitle work. Pretty simple jump after that to see how everything works more on a team based status where there is single person for each small job on a project.

So I was strangely enough a fully grown fansubber by the time I was truly "fansubbing".
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Old 2007-07-06, 23:19   Link #28
xat
Senior Member
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Also part of the self-taught subset.
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Old 2007-07-07, 00:05   Link #29
alchemist11
サード
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 26
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My Story is Simple.

I applied to a new group (as Editor) developed and created by various known people, namely a Translator, Timer/Typesetter, & Raw Provider from Animanda. The groups name is Utsukushii-Studio. Then Translator/founder when AWOL and I got bored of wating for him, so I suggested to 2 other new (one was an experienced) members of the group to join my group which i started only about 3 weeks after I joined U-S.

My groups name is Gear Fansubs. During U-S Translator/founders' absence I skilled myself in Timing, Typesetting and Softsub Encoding, as well as obviously QC. I'm still a learner for Timing, a learner/average for typesetting as well. As of right now my editing skills have improved to average. My group had released two episodes of an anime then disbanded because we merged (all 5 official members of Gear) with a veteran group named ray=out.

ray=out now has its original 4 members that started the group as well as all members from Gear including me. We merged because one of the members that was in mine who was one of 4 original ray=out members suggested it would be better for us, and our group would be much bigger. And so after the merge I became ray=out's leader & semi-founder/reviver. The postions I account for in fansubbing for them is mainly leading, editing, quality control, a few typesetting and encoding. I also have a very large role deciding and choosing what anime we do, infact I actually choose them. ray=out's original leader/translator is a very nice and easy going person, not many groups have a translator who doesn't make as much decision as the leader for animes.

As of right now there are 11 members (includes 1 bt seeder) for ray=out, 1 member (who was a translator) quit, due to his inexperience. So 10 members but still growing. Recently, on the verge of hiring an experienced Timer, various people esp. for QC and Editing. Lastly, the funny thing is all this has happened in only 3 months.
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Old 2007-07-09, 11:46   Link #30
Fatsobob
Retired
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
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I Don't Remember! T.T
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Old 2007-07-09, 11:50   Link #31
Onniguru
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
I'm not part of a fansub group and never will be. I just grab hard-to-find raws off of Jp p2p programs, re-encode the really bad ones. As pointed out in another thread, Im pretty clueless when it comes to "best approaches for encoding" at this point in time...and yet, what I produce is still a lot better than some of the sources I receive. I get source that are capped at 119 fps for no reason, that have VBR stuffed into AVI, and similar problems.
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Old 2007-07-09, 12:19   Link #32
[darkfire]
Give them the What For!
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cave of Evil- Invite Only
Age: 27
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Well I was new and started out in a new group with a bunch of noobs. I'm still in the group and the group (founded in Feb 2006) even thought only 3 people of the original group remains.

Well I had no skills what so ever when I joined Megami-Anime. I went in as a timer... but have never timed a show to this day. I found my calling after talking to an Anime-4ever encoder that went to my school. He taught me the ropes of Yatta. And then I just picked the minds of other encoders and typesetters. I hung out in forums. Listen read almost every word in this forum. I am mostly self taught. I evolved as I went along. Then I accquired the skills of Management by looking at how other succesful groups did it. Groups that release fast and slow. How to interact with problem staff. How to move a project along without annoying people.

Well more than 1 year later. I went from doing just typesetting to. Typesetting, Encdoing, Managment, QC, Editing, Distro, Website Mangament, Karaoke timming and Effects, After Effects. This only happend due to the relative newness of all the staff members. It forced me to learn all aspects of fansubbing. So I can fill in for anyone.
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Old 2007-07-10, 10:36   Link #33
Starks
I see what you did there!
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [darkfire] View Post
Well I had no skills what so ever when I joined Megami-Anime. I went in as a timer... but have never timed a show to this day. I found my calling after talking to an Anime-4ever encoder that went to my school. He taught me the ropes of Yatta. And then I just picked the minds of other encoders and typesetters. I hung out in forums. Listen read almost every word in this forum. I am mostly self taught. I evolved as I went along. Then I accquired the skills of Management by looking at how other succesful groups did it. Groups that release fast and slow. How to interact with problem staff. How to move a project along without annoying people.
Mentar taught me how to use Yatta and the basics of IVTC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onniguru View Post
I'm not part of a fansub group and never will be. I just grab hard-to-find raws off of Jp p2p programs, re-encode the really bad ones. As pointed out in another thread, Im pretty clueless when it comes to "best approaches for encoding" at this point in time...and yet, what I produce is still a lot better than some of the sources I receive. I get source that are capped at 119 fps for no reason, that have VBR stuffed into AVI, and similar problems.
I'm glad I'm not alone...
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Old 2007-07-10, 11:14   Link #34
Harukalover
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: There! Not there! There!
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by [darkfire] View Post
I found my calling after talking to an Anime-4ever encoder that went to my school. He taught me the ropes of Yatta.
I hope he just went over yatta with you and not any filtering tips...
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Last edited by Harukalover; 2007-07-10 at 23:33.
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Old 2007-07-11, 11:57   Link #35
[darkfire]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harukalover View Post
I hope he just went over yatta with you and not any filtering tips...
I read all the manuals and taught my self. It was Gatsu that taught me not d3....
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Old 2007-07-13, 01:38   Link #36
D4RK-PH0ENiX
Mad Karaoker
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Age: 28
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Hmm... well, I started as a typesetter for a russian fansub community back in 2005. Took a break and in 2006 joined V-A as a typesetter. Later on in december 2006 I tried to get in Static-Subs as timer Well, it was a try. At the end of the year I've got into GNU-fansubs as karaoker and then...
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Old 2007-07-16, 04:22   Link #37
Sakaki-
AnimeONE Typesetter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by uLTraCarL- View Post
That was like so long ago, but I downloaded SSA on my own and started messing around with karaoke and timing and other odd bits.
I started out the same way kinda
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Old 2007-07-17, 17:35   Link #38
Zero1
Two bit encoder
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Age: 29
I had been encoding on a somewhat casual basis (my own TV rips and stuff) for 2 or 3 years before I got into fansubbing. My group was subbing a series that I was interested in and I basically wanted to join and work on that series because I believed I could help with encoding.

I now meander between my two main interests, gaming and encoding. I'm becoming ever so much more distant from current anime and trends, but I still love 80s/90s stuff as much as ever. Some people have said the quality has gone downhill recently. I was of this same opinion, particularly since CG become more widespread; costs and production time had fallen dramatically which in turn means if a series is a flop, it's less of a time/financial failure than it would have been years ago when using cels. To me, anime lost part of it's charm when it went CG. I admit that I enjoyed the series in the end, but Seed Destiny was so bad, it's the last "recent" anime I've watched.

I thought this in 2002 when I was watching Gundam Seed, and I still think it now. Perhaps this is one of the reasons I find it hard to get into things. I suppose it's kind of like Vinyl purists Vs CD people.

Maybe it's just that my interests changed or that the scene has changed and I've failed to move with it.

Anyway, I'm basically even more lazy and as inactive as ever. Sadly I don't think even a new Gundam series will get me encoding again. Real life has claimed yet another encoder.
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Old 2007-07-24, 23:35   Link #39
Maceart
Doremi-fansubs founder
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Join Date: Mar 2004
No experience at all, after getting Comcast cable the first fansub I've ever downloaded myself was Konjiki no Gash Bell episode 7 from Anime-Empire way back in 2003. (I wanted to see what was happening and my sister was trading CDs way too slowly for my taste).

Two years later, after watching a couple episodes of Ojamajo Doremi in Taiwan, I swore to myself, "I must get more of this series to watch", and, noting that it wasn't being subbed anymore just created a #doremi in Rizon and went to all the big channels I can find and asked around to see if there were any Ojamajo Doremi fans.

One translator, Neclos heeded my call and Doremi-fansubs started from there, when I downloaded a Chinese sub of Ojamajo Doremi Naisho episode 1 and Ladholyman translated while Neclos taught me the bare basics of SSA. I timed, Neclos translation checked and encoded and my groups' first fansub was out.

Thus I voted for "I started my own group and learned as I went along" since that describes how Doremi-fansubs pretty much started, as a core three man team trying to sub all 200+ episodes of Ojamajo Doremi.
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Old 2007-07-28, 20:02   Link #40
acidflower
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Hrrrm. :O

Well, first I got on irc with the intent of leeching all the narutard manga i could (from #chuushin which had great bots but not anymore). Then I started idling in a few channels, spoon, fork (and later nanshi), saiyaman-raws mainly.

I got into timing through good ol' sakaki's guide (and timecop's), which were a big help. Then, I joined a few groups, got kicked out of many for slacking, etc.
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